I see no comparison whatsoever between the two. The play on the video doesn’t just exploit the defenses’ lack of knowledge of the rules, but rather their reluctance to lay out a defenseless kid who may be confused.
Agree. My 9 year old knows that if anyone crosses the line of scrimmage with the ball, he needs to hit him. Only the refs move the ball without consequence.
We had a team run the “wrong ball” play against us earlier this year. It went wrong for the offense similar to what was posted earlier. If the defense doesn’t bite on the trickery, it is extremely dangerous for the kid with the ball. He is standing there with no blockers, and if he’s selling the fake correctly, not even looking at the defender who is about to take him out. In our case, the QB ended up with a separated shoulder and a fumble that we ran back for six.
I have seen similar actions on the baseball field. Runner on second and third, and the third base coach yelling loudly at his runner at second to increase his lead off more and more and more, the attempt is to distract the pitcher into balking and advancing the runners. With my better pitchers, it is a futile effort. It has worked in the past with my younger kids.
Another baseball “trick.” Runner on first and the batter takes ball three and the coach yells at him to take his base. The batter acts confused but heads towards first. The runner at first trots over to second before the umpire can tell the batter to return to the plate as it is only ball three. End result, the runner at first just stole second without anyone even trying to get him out.
These fall in the same category as the hidden ball trick.
Hogwash. There’s no “reluctance” here, for a number of reasons. Primarily, no one is moving even hesitantly towards the QB. Secondly, you’re acting as if there’s no middle ground between “do nothing” and “lay him out”. Neither the D-linemen or LBs move a muscle, let alone hold on to him long enough to get word from the sideline to tackle him.
Personally, I think that trick plays are just fine. They very seldom work, though, and work less the more they’re used, which makes them self-limiting. Even if you don’t like them, you don’t have to make a rule against them, because they won’t be used much anyway.
You think the only reason the play works is that the defense doesn’t know the rules about when the ball is in play? That these kids don’t know when the center gives the ball to the QB it’s in play?
No. They know the rule. The reason the play works is, in part, that the kids aren’t looking to hit a defenseless player walking by them.
No, they clearly DON’T know the rule. That’s why none of them are doing anything. Again - why are you avoiding the fact that you don’t have to tackle someone at 100% to stop them? He walks right through 2 DLs and 2 LBs, who don’t do a thing. One of the DLs is resting on his knee and just turns his head. The LBs face the QB and just let him walk through! If they “knew the rules”, they’d have a) taken the ball out of his hand, b) wrapped him up or c) *anything *other than what they did. I cannot watch that clip and, with a straight face, say, “Look at the restraint on the defense’s part! They saved that poor child’s life by not high-lowing him!”
I’m not a football referee, but I think if I was, I’d reluctantly let the original play stand, but if any offensive player said anything about having the wrong ball or asking about a penalty, then the play is dead right there, IMO. I might consider an unsportsmanlike or delay of game, too. There’s a huge difference between a fake involving normal playing actions and a fake involving non-play actions, and the latter are not sportsmanlike or acceptable. I mean, I assume we wouldn’t think it was sportsmanlike, say for the coach to fake a heart attack and snap the ball while the defense is expressing concern, right? Or how about faking out the other team by calling the coach before the game and telling him that the game’s time or location has been changed? I mean, there’s nothing in the rules that specifically forbids talking to the other coach before the game, and there’s nothing that forbids lying to him. Why isn’t that just as good a fake as the ‘wrong ball’ play?
Anyway, for the kid who did the ‘we have the wrong ball’ routine, I hope next week he notices they do have the wrong ball, picks it up to change it without waiting for a whistle, and gets his leg broken as a defender creams him (with the defensive coach having the fake video on his cell phone to show the referees).
I hope you have no real life interaction with youth sports.
I’m struggling to see how this could work (please be aware I don’t know the rules of American football), When I played junior sport any player with the ball would of been swamped regardless of what he said he was doing or how casually he did it, and the coach of our team would of been yelling for us to go for him. That said, it seems to me that this is a legitimate play and I’d say for certain that the opposition will never let this happen to them again so I think its valuable lesson.
Absolutely. It wasn’t snapped in the normal fashion with the QB under center. I’d doubt the majority at ANY age probably would have recognized that as a legal snap and even among those who DO, probably only due to having seen the play work before.
I’ve seen something similar happen in Rugby (South African provincial game from the late 80s, Natal vs WP) - a penalty awarded within easy kicking distance and the defense (and in fact his own team) all assumed that they would take the kick, only to be surprised when the fullback (Hugh Rees-Edwards) took a tap and ran to score in the corner. He’d stood with the ball chatting to the ref, but neither indicated that he intended to kick.
The unique rules of American football are the only reason this can work. You’re not allowed to dive on the ball, or tackle someone, or hit someone while action is stopped. The referee resets the ball, the players take position, and nobody hits anybody until the next play begins. This is an important rule for the safety of the players.
The key to this play is that the defensive players don’t realize that a play has begun, so by the rules they aren’t jumping all over the person holding the ball.
Not necessarily. Johnathan Thurston tried a trick where he chased a kick into the in goal, pretended the ball had went dead when it hadn’t, and just sauntered back in on to the field as if to take a 22 tap. I can’t quite recall the precise details, but don’t think he was immediately set upon.
Yes, Arwel Thomas pulled something similar for Wales on England in the 1990s. England still won though (they didn’t lose many to Wales that decade, as opposed to the twenty-odd years before). For the benefit of those that don’t know, any indication of intent to kick a goal from a penalty is irrevocable, but it is by no means a given that a goal kick is the only or best option at any given penalty.
Again, this comes up from time to time, though it’s not common. And I’ve also seen an international player recover the ball in-goal, forget to touch it down to make it dead, and throw it forward for the restart on the 22-metre line - only to be penalised for a forward pass (which in that circumstance meant defending a scrum uncomfortably close to their own lines).
I think it’s mildly funny that the kids in the play are obviously school age amateurs but the website with the article is called totalprosports.com.
OK, I don’t really wish harm to any kids. My point was that the whole reason you don’t let people fake things like replacing the wrong ball is to prevent just that kind of thing from happening.
Let me put it this way: let’s say you were a youth coach and warned your team that the opposing team had run the ‘wrong ball’ fake earlier in the season; when the opposing QB genuinely tries to replace the wrong ball one of your kids tackles him, causing injury. Do you tell that player ‘Good job, way to be alert, there was no whistle.’ or do you tell him ‘What were you thinking, hittting a defenseless player during a stoppage?’. Do you really want to be in that situation?
For those not familiar with American football, discipline is a core component of the game. Note that only during a play is the ball “live”. Between plays the ball is “dead”, meaning that you cannot take any action against the other team without being assessed a large penalty, and possibly expulsion from the game.
Especially at this level, control is from the top-down and respect for coaches (on either side) is paramount. IMO this play worked playing on that respect. The sneaky coach called from the sidelines that the penalty from the previous play had not been assessed. This persuaded the defense that the ball was dead when it was not. The offense really sold it by not moving and the quarterback casually walking through the line.
I think this action by the coach borders on the unsportsmanlike. The play should occor on the field, not involving someone from the sidelines, but it was not strictly illegal.
This is a little reminiscent of the old center eligible play from the movie version of MASH.
From http://ezinearticles.com/?Illegal-Trick-Football-Plays-In-Youth-Football&id=681208
Of course if the refs don’t call it, it’s not a penalty. Might become a point of emphasis in officials camp.
Excellent official use of the word “baloney”! 