I’ve seen it, and I completely believe that it’s real. What I want to know (anyone who’s read about it or knows a thing or two about a thing or two please respond) is, if a person is given a hypnotic suggestion - made to do or say something when some sort of signal is given later on - would remain with that suggestion if they weren’t released of it.
Example: A hypnotist puts a guy under, and tells him to “cluck like a chicken” whenever he hears a whistle blowing.
Would that guy always do it, say a year from that time, unless the hypnotist (or another) were to “deactivate” the suggestion?
I understand that once someone is woken from their “suggestion state” (when they’re under), they don’t know they are about to do their thing, that they’re basically “asleep”. But that’s hard to believe, when the person is behaving like a normal, non-sleeping person. So I don’t really agree that they’d eventually “wake up”, so to speak.
If this “long term” hypnotism is possible, then it would be pretty freaky. I remember one guy was made to believe that his feet weighed about a ton each, and when he was woken, he tried to get up and go back to his seat, only to fall down, like his feet were glued to the floor. It’s really funny stuff.
To anyone who hasn’t seen this happen, I strongly suggest you go see a show somewhere. You will laugh your ass off.
If a person never released from a hypnotic suggestion would reliably always obey it, wouldn’t smoking cessation, dieting, and other such challenges be much easier? Hypnotism is used sometimes for these things, but it is only a little helpful if at all.
What aspect of hypnotism do you believe? That only a small fraction of people are susceptible to it? That some people can be made to believe that things brought out under hypnosis actually happened (even though there is no way to certify these “facts”)? That subjects can be made to believe that certain events really happened, when in fact they did not? That hypnotized subjects often feel a strong sense of duty to please the hypnotist & audience by complying with bizarre requests? That subjects will not knowingly violate their own personal code of ethics under hypnosis?
Sure, I believe all of those things, too.
Trouble is, even professionals can’t seem to agree on the usefulness of hypnosis. Often, results obtained from one controled experiment are impossible to duplicate in another, identical one. I think there are just too many variables involved for hypnosis to be a reliably useful tool. For example, let’s say that both you and I suffered traumatic experiences as children. What can we conclude then, when under hypnosis, your trauma is revealed but mine is not? Are you simply “easier” to hypnotize? Did you have a more skillful hypnotist? Maybe you have a subconcious need to please the hypnotist?
In any event, my trauma may remain undiscovered through no fault of my own or the hypnotist’s. What good is hypnosis if we can’t expect at least reasonably consistant results from its application?
Years ago I learned hypnosis and self hypnosis from a hypnotist who also did stage work. He ran classes, on weekends, for weeks explaining hypnotic principles and using stage tricks to demonstrate points.
Months after I had finished the course, I dropped in to another course he was conducting at the YMCA to see a friend who was doing the course.
I was sitting up the back as the hypnotist gave suggestions to a group of subjects. To one he said “After you wake whenever I say the word ‘jungle’…”. I immediately, without knowing what I was doing, leapt to my feet and started doing a Tarzan impression, which is just what he would have told that day’s subject to do.
The previous time I had seen the hypnotist I had left early and had not ben around for the session where he removed all the day’s suggestions. I had no idea of this until after my chest pounding and screaming.
From my understanding people under are akin to semi-sleep.
For instance most of us have probably been dreaming and a truck will backfire and we’ll incorporate it into your dream.
Hypnosis has been shown to relieve pain. In fact many dentist use it instead of novacaine. Also doctors have used it to make patients hold their arm in certain positions for hours that they normally coudn’t do. For instance in a situation where a cast insn’t appropriate but they need the hand immobile.
I recall a nurse in a Chicago suburban hospital was fired as she worked in the emergency room with kids and remarkable always seem to calm them and deal with them. Turns out she was hypnotising them without parental permission.
wonders why there’s been so many threads on hypnosis lately
Some points:
I have heard that there is evidence supporting post-hypnotic suggestion, wherein a person will respond to a suggestion given while hypnosis after he or she was brought out of their hypnotized state. However, this is what I’ve been told; I’ve never seen or read the evidence for myself. So I don’t really buy that it works.
Hypnosis is a relaxation method.You are in a state of mild-to-deep relaxation, which feels similar to how you feel when you just wake up from sleep. There is no supernatural trance to fall into. At all times, the hypnotizee is aware of his surroundings, actions, and thoughts. Anything a hypnotized person does, he does so fully aware of his actions. And as I have said before in other threads, the relationship between hypnotizer and hypnotizee is active, consensual, and cooperative.
Evno, what you witnessed is entertainment hypnosis. It differs from the form of hypnosis used by psychologists/psychiatrists/trained hypnotherapists. As I mentioned in an earlier thread on the subject, be wary of the authenticity of any act performed on a stage, especially when you have paid to view the performance. The point of the performance, after all, is to entertain people.
This isn’t a slam against stage hypnotists. I’m sure they work hard and are good at what they do. Just keep in mind that what they do, they do for entertainment.
Hypnotism is often used to help people stop smoking, lose weight, be more confident, succeed, etc., but it’s probably one of the least effective methods of doing so out there. Even some sites (ones that are trying to sell you their tapes or videos, of course) admit that the best approach in making such changes involve methods other than hypnosis. Hypnosis helps, they say, but there are better ways. Knowing that, why would you even consider using hypnotism at all?
Markxxx, do you have any cites for the applications of hypnosis you mentioned? I ask out of skepticism, of course, but also out of curiosity. I’m having a hard time believing that anyone undergoing a surgical procedure could do without painkiller completely. And I’m also having a hard time believing that anyone is capable of keeping their arm upright for “hours”, hypnotized or not. Arm muscles will fatigue. There is even a routine in the hypnosis I do that takes advantage of that fact.
These are links to previous posts of mine on hypnosis. They should give you a pretty good understanding of what happens when someone is hypnotized:
Okay, there’s some points here against the authenticity of hypnotism. But I’m fairly confident to say that the people I saw hypnotized were not “in on the game”. the triggers (words or sounds or whatever that induce an effect) can sometimes be complicated, and easy to miss. Some people I knew wouldn’t have the attention span to hear these triggers normally, but they react very quickly when they happen.
One of my friends was suggested to make out with a microphone stand, and he cried later on that day, because he couldn’t believe he did that (he’s shy). I agree that people wouldn’t do something they really don’t want to do, but that situation made it even more convincing. I just don’t buy the whole conspiracy angle.
And as far as I know, the reason hypnotism is better than real sleep or relaxation is that it’s like a concentrated form of sleep. A few minutes of it can feel like a few hours of real rest.
Hmmm… I’d sure like to know how to put myself under, especially for that 10 minute break at work…
I’d like to make it clear that I was not questioning the authenticity of hypnosis. I only encouraged skepticism towards the entertainment variety of hypnosis, the type not performed by psychologists and trained hypnotherapists.
And, if I may speak for him, Attrayant was only asking that you clarify exactly what you believed to be real about hypnosis. He also pointed out that hypnosis is not yet entirely understood (which is true), that it is not a reliable indicator or test or method of anything (which is true), and that hypnosis does not affect everyone the same way (which is true). I don’t see where he questioned its authenticity.
I’d have to respectfully disagree with you. By definition, they were. Hypnosis is an interaction between the hypnotizer and hypnotizee. If the people truly hadn’t been “in on the game”, then there would have been no hypnosis, and it would have been a darn boring show.
Again, I’m going to disagree with you, on the point that post-hypnotic triggers are complicated and easy to miss. In fact, it’s logical to conclude that they would not work if they were complicated and easy to miss. How likely are you to remember or pick up on something subtle when you are highly relaxed? If something requires concentration to detect and/or figure out, it’s likely to be missed completely in such a state. Instead, it makes more sense if the trigger is obvious and plainly stated. This was the case in every example of post-hypnotic suggestion that I’ve heard about.
Without knowing your friend, I can only guess that being on stage had great influence on his behavior. It’s amazing what you will do when you are standing in front of an audience who is watching your every move and waiting for you to act a certain way. Given that the alternative is that standing there and doing nothing and looking like an idiot, it’s not surprising that many people comply with the suggestion, even if it’s something they wouldn’t ordinarily do.
Considering how much it took to hammer into other posters that no hypnotized person does anything that they are completely against doing, these words warm my heart.
But what do you mean by “the whole conspiracy angle”? If you mean the supernatural element associated with hypnosis, and the “power” that the hypnotizer is thought to have over the hypnotizee, then it’s good that you don’t buy it. Because there’s nothing supernatural about hypnosis.
I wish; I’d be staying up until 6am regularly and using hypnosis to get my rest. Hypnotism is not concentrated sleep, it’s much closer to meditation. In order to receive the benefits of sleep, you’ll have to sleep. Simple as that.
Hypnosis is really just a way of concentrating really hard on something-- the hypnotist. Any suggestions that are given during a session will eventually fade-- that’s why hypnosis requires repeated treatments to be effective as a smoking cessation aid, for example.
As for **Markxxx]/b] and his ‘hypnosis as pain-killer’. It can and does work. There’s a documentary that I saw in class about a pregnant woman undergoing a c-section without anesthetic. (she was allergic). She spent several weeks with a hypnotist preparing for the ordeal and learning how to deal with pain. In these sessions they found a piece of music that she really enjoyed, and help her ignore discomfort.
During the surgery she was listening to music, her hypnotist kept issuing suggestions that she was all hunky-dory, and a doctor’s going <slice> into her belly.
don’t ask, I bet that wouldn’t have happened if you met him in a social situation. being back in class, in the exact same situation, helped reinforce the old suggestion. You knew what was coming up, you were already concentrating on your teach, you had already done this, and you responded to the (implied) suggestion.
Okie dokie. I’ve read a little from online sources about using hypnosis for pain relief/escape, specifically as it’s used in childbirth.
Hypnosis does seem to help people manage pain. But it cannot keep you from feeling zero pain. It works by distracting you from your pain by giving you something more pleasant to think about. It does not work for everyone who tries it.
Call me a wimp, but I’d have more faith in something that worked for everyone. And I’d feel more comfortable with a method whose M.O. was something other than distraction. Unless you have compelling reasons to not take drugs (e.g. an allergy), I think you’re better off staying away from non-pharmaceutical means of managing major pain.
The put a person under and then have the lay down across some chairs. Then they remove the middle chairs leaving only the feet and head supported. Then they stand on the person.
Sufferers of catatonic schizophrenia have been observed countless times locking into a pose for days. In fact, this is one the characteristics that sets catatonic schizophrenia apart from the paranoid, hebephrenic, and undifferentiated varieties. Given the right state of mind, muscles resis fatigue. I'll get a cite later-either on the web or from one of my psychology textbooks. One doctor mentions a patient who stood with her palm held in the same position for three days. When she was able to communicate with the staff again she explained that good and evil had been warring on her hand. She had remained motionless out of fear that moving her hand might upset the balance in favor of evil.
It IS possible to completely block pain with hypnosis. It just isn't easy.
I reccomend Ormond McGill. Although he is a stage hypnotist, his writing is largely crap free. The Master cites him as a reference in His column on hypnotism.
There is substantial evidence (which I can’t dredge up now, having burned my notes ) that surgeons in the 19th century used hypnosis in some cases, but hypnosis didn’t always work, because it’s often a difficult procedure.
Then some smart guy discovered ether, and the operating table was a much happier place.
I’ve heard a simple explanation: this is something that you can do while not under hypnosis as well. It’s not as hard as it looks. It makes sense - after all no one is claiming hypnosis gives you superhuman abilities.
The same way the do the trick where somebody gets levitated, and they wave a hula hoop around the person to show there’s no bar.
Well, there’s a bar. They move the hoop very carefully so that it looks like they pass it completely over the person, but they usually just bring it halfway down the body, then twist it around and take it off the same way it went on.
Anyway. Trick. No levitation. No “body like a steel bar.”
In the “Why aren’t people terrified of hypnotists?” thread, Zette posted about doing the chair trick.
DocCathode- Now that you mention catatonic schizophrenia, I do recall seeing a photograph of a woman with her body twisted in what had to be the most uncomfortable position known to man. I think she maintained that posture for several days as well.
I suppose that a hypnotizer could suggest to someone that their arm wasn’t tiring, or that there was a similar don’t-help-evil-win-the-battle struggle on their hand. But I think it’d take one heck of a suggestible person.
Thanks for mentioning McGill. I’ll check him out.
As for whether hypnosis can completely block out pain, I’m still skeptical. There’s a big debate over it, I understand, with hypnosis’ proponents (both patients and physicians) claiming that it can eliminate pain completely and others (mostly exercise physiologists) expressing doubt on that.
Personally, I don’t doubt that hypnotism can reduce the amount of pain you can feel; I am skeptical that it can make you feel zero pain. All I’ve read were doctors claiming their patients felt no pain and anecdotes backing that assertion up, without really explaining how that’s possible. Of course, this is only based on what one hour’s worth of searching and reading will turn up. I’ll look into this further when I have the time.
Barbarian, no offense meant, but considering some of the crazier treatments that were used in the 19th century (such as the spinning chair as a treatment for schizophrenia), mentioning that they used hypnosis back then doesn’t strengthen your point much.
