Question about Japenese Culture

Factual Questions
1

I’m American, and what I know about Japanese culture is miniscule. I’m hoping some Dopers might be able to shed some light on this topic for me.

My new favorite author is Banana Yoshimoto. She’s a Japanese writer, and she writes in a very intriguing, almost magical realism, style. But I often suspect that the translations of her novels and short stories are not the greatest.

Question #1: One character hears that another is contemplating suicide. She is horrified to hear this. Then she learns it is “love suicide.” Immediately her reaction is much more accepting. “Oh, love suicide. OK then …” (paraphrasing)

What is love suicide? Is it more acceptable than other kinds of suicide?

Question #2: An older sister takes her younger (10 year old) brother out, and for a treat, lets him have his “favorite cocktails.” I know Americans are puritanical about underage drinking, but this still struck me as odd. I know many cultures let kids drink wine in the home, but this scene is in a vacation resort.

Would this happen? Does cocktail in this case actually mean a non-alcoholic punch or other fancy drink?

I think I’m confused about whether these are just poor translations, actual cultural differences, or the author’s own creations for the sake of her sometimes surreal plots.

Many thanks in advance!

PS I can’t recommend this author highly enough! She is amazing!

2

This post is falling off the board so I thought I’d just drop by even though I’m not an expert in Japanese culture (so take all this with a grain of salt)…

Regarding the first question, I believe “love suicide” is just suicide under circumstances similar to Shakespeare’s Romeo & Juliet. Japanese culture has traditionally been very patriarchic. Young men and women did not have the luxury of choosing their mates until modern times as that decision is to be made by their father. Under these circumstances, marriages are often arranged with consideration to the class of each participating family, their wealth, their power, etc. and etc, instead of the views of the two individuals involved. Losing face is a great sin in Japanese culture; marrying below your class is certainly a loss of face, and is something that the patriarch simply will not permit. This is one of the major reasons for the elevated rates of love suicides in Japan. People may be more sympathetic to love suicides because they know it’s very hard to change a stubborn archaic old man’s prejudice, without which, there is no solution to the problem. No, you can’t just run away and get married in Las Vegas (that’s another issue).

Regarding the second question, I found this US Navy document that said:

I have no idea if underage drinking is socially acceptable in Japan. I would guess that there is some wiggle room between “alcoholic beverages” and “cocktails”. Perhaps the former is a legal term defined with regards to a specific concentration of alcohol that some drinks can get by. Maybe the meaning of the word “cocktail” has changed in Japan. I know the Japanese have incorporated many English terms into their language with direct phonetic translations. Cocktail may in fact be pronounced as is, albeit with a Japanese accent, in Japan. I wouldn’t be surprised if the word’s meaning has changed to suit their culture. Just to summarize all that concerning your second question: I don’t know :smiley:

3

Well, I’m not an expert on Japan, but I have been here a while, so…

First off, Banana Yoshimoto is known for taking ordinary settings and filling them with bizarre characters and situations, so I’d be very careful about basing your image of Japanese culture on her books. It’s kind of like imagining that the US is just as David Lynch portrays it in his movies.

Love suicides. During the Shogun era (pre-1860), love suicides happened (for the reasons Zog explained) but were probably not that common. Today, however, they are almost non-existant. Japanese society became a lot more egalitarian after WWII, so there is less concern about a potential spouse’s background among ordinary families. Who one marries has become much more of an individual choice, rather than a parental command. Granted, arranged marriages are still fairly common (about 30-40%), but they are “arranged” in the sense of introducing a pair of prospective singles and seeing if they hit it off.

It’s still customary for the groom-to-be to ask his future in-laws for permission to marry their daughter (I did this myself). Most of the time, it’s just a formality. If the parents reject the marriage, though, the unlucky couple does not start thinking about suicide. In modern Japanese society, a love suicide would never be considered an acceptable, rational, or even understandable choice. Family ties are still quite strong in Japan, but not so strong that being away from your family is a fate worse than death. If the couple loves each other enough to prefer death to separation, then they will most likely just move to Tokyo, get married anyway (parental permission isn’t legally required if they’re both over 18), and wait for the parents to accept the situation (which usually happens when the grandkids are born). If a couple did decide to commit suicide together because the parents had refused to accept their marriage, it would definitely make the national news.

Cocktails. I’ve seen ‘cocktail’ applied to a few non-alcoholic drinks (and foods, there are a few varieties of cocktail-flavored gum here), but it’s almost always used for alcoholic beverages.

The drinking age is 20, but there isn’t any strict carding policy at stores or bars. Still, a 10-year-old would never be served alcohol at a restaurant, store or bar. Socially, the Japanese tend to view underage drinking about as disapprovingly as Americans do (many Japanese I’ve spoken with were very surprised that my family let me drink wine occasionally at dinner ever since I was little (I have a French father)). Drinking in front of your kids (at home or in a restaurant), however, is considered normal, but I think either the book’s character was jokingly referring to a child’s (non-alcoholic) drink as a ‘cocktail’, or Yoshimoto was deliberately trying to be shocking. So no, it is definitely not considered normal or socially acceptable to get a 10-year-old drunk.

Hope this helps!

Disclaimer: I’ve read Yoshimoto’s Kitchen. My mom and my (Japanese) fiancee have also read it. None of us got the point.

–sublight.

4

Sorry, Zor, I mis-read your name. My apologies.

–sublight.

5

Thought I’d lend a hand. I’m not an expert on Japanese culture, but I play one on television.

Well, I must confess I haven’t read any of Banana Yoshimoto’s stuff, but I can tell you that the attitude towards suicide in Japan is quite different. Historically, offing onself for a noble cause, generally the preservation of honor for oneself or one’s superiors, was generally viewed in a favorable light. In addition, if one had committed some shameful act, to atone for it by killing onself would often be the only way to remove the shame.

To give you an interesting anectdote that really doesn’t relate directly to your question <smirk>, three company executives last year hung themselves in seperate hotel rooms of the same hotel last year. In their suicide notes, they expressed the wish that the life insurance payoffs (of course they pay for suicides in Japan!) be used to keep their struggling company afloat.

I think that Yoshimoto is making fun of both the Japanese cultural predeliction for offing yourself freely for a good cause and the childish obsession that many young Japanese (particularly females) have for idealized romance.

However, having not read the story, I’m just guessing, so take what I say with a teaspoon of soy sauce.

I’ll agree that translations of Japanese novels are often atrocious. Generally Japanese novels fall into one of two categories:
Excellent stories that are ruined by crappy translations.
Crappy stories that cannot be saved by excellent translations.

Regarding the cocktails/underage drinking question, I must answer with a resounding, “Dunno.” Underage drinking is really not viewed in the same way as it is in the US. Why you can get beer and whiskey out of vending machines, for Gosh Sakes! However there is also a fondness in Japan for mixed drinks without alcohol. What people in the US would call “virgin” drinks. I have no idea which one the translator meant. If I were to take a guess, I’d read further to see what the effects of the “cocktails” on the brother were. If he’s blushing, it means they are alcoholic. Just remember how to tell a drunk Japanese person from an embarassed one. The drunk blushes, and the embarassed one laughs.

6

Love suicides and multiple suicides (Shinjuu in Japanese) are a common theme in Japanese literature, especially in theatrical forms (Kabuki, Noh, and Bunraku), and are highly romanticzed.

As stated above, the drinking age in 20 here, but it’s often flauted by teens, due to laxness in carding and easy availability (the aforementioned beer machines). However, there has been a bit of a crack down: retailers supposedly voluntarily withrew beer machines this year (I haven’t seen any dissapear though).

7

Ian Buruma’s new book, “The Missionary and The Libertine,” has a chapter on Yoshimoto Banana. Worth a read. Whole book is pretty good, too.