I have a very small, poured-concrete patio (10’ x 12’.) I am getting quotes to replace/enlarge it and one company told me they could install a paver patio over (without removing) the existing concrete. They certainly sounded like they knew what they were talking about, and I had them come out to give me a quote based on a number of recommendations from neighbors. For anyone with experience, does this sound like something properly done? I just automatically assumed the existing patio would need to be removed. Any thoughts? I am in Charlotte, NC. We don’t get much frozen ground over the winter here, if that matters.
Sure, if the concrete is in decent shape, and doesn’t have any large, expanding cracks. Just keep in mind that depending on the height of the pavers or bricks you choose, it might be awkwardly high, compared to the surrounding landscape or door thresholds. You’ll also have to build the expanded area (that won’t have the pad under it) to that height.
There’s also a possibility that the extended area might shift or settle in a way that the existing concrete does not - leading to unevenness in the paved surface over both.
Definitely something to ask about, but not having to break up the existing patio is likely to save you quite a bit.
This link takes you to a British hard-landscaping advice site. It’s where I got some excellent advice on paving my drive and patio. They wont try to sell you anything.
The part that relates to your job is here:
https://www.pavingexpert.com/faq_layover01
Thanks for the good info!
Pavers are not the same as poured concrete, so I am not sure how relevant that last link is.
The most important thing with pavers is to have a stable base to lay them on. Usually this means removing any topsoil or organic material down to undisturbed clay (or whatever your local substrate is) and grading back up with road crush and final layer of sand.
An old concrete patio can be very stable so that is a plus. Concrete patios will often have voids under them though and sand the pavers are layed on could be lost to these voids during rains. Any area that extends past the original concrete is going to behave differently and will most likely show over time. One big advantage of pavers though, is that it is easy to lift and relay an area if there is a problem.
Grade is an issue and I don’t see a lot of patios that are already so low that you could easily add another 4-6 inches that pavers will need. There should always be a small step down to grade from any window or door.
The existing patio is in very good condition, with no cracks or divots. The gap between the patio and the back doorsill is 5".
That will leave the finished surface very close to the threshold of the door. Pavers drain very well so if graded well there should be little pooling.
Just think about water seeping in at the door. Is the flooring/construction such that they could be damaged by water seeping in? Is the area exposed? Is snow common in your area? Not necessarily a deal breaker, but a potential problem.
Those are good points. Thanks. I’ll need to think about that.
The OP wants pavers.
The usual cure is either to make the paved area slope away from the house, or install a drain.
Yes I know the OP wants pavers, thats why I pointed out that the previous link was discussing concrete paving over existing concrete; which is significantly different than pavers over concrete.
The ‘usual cure’ is to build things properly in the first place, which means leaving a significant gap between a door threshold and grade. This is actually municipal code where I live, Calgary.
Of course the patio should be properly graded, but that won’t help during driving rains, melting snow or ice build up. I inspect homes for insurance claims and I’ve seen enough damage from seepage at doors and patios. Usually it is just damaged hardwood, but for second floor patios in wood frame construction Ive seen rotten joists and beams.
Would concrete be poured in the new area? If the new pavers were just over dirt or an aggregate base, over time the pavers over the new and old areas may look different. At first it will look perfect, but over the years the two zones will experience different environmental conditions. They may end up with a different color because of differences in how water drains from beneath them, the heat affects them, or something else. They may weather differently. They may have different heights due to settling. There’s a lot of things which may affect them differently. If both the new and old pavers are on a concrete pad, then I would expect them to be pretty stable and consistent over time.
In addition to talking to neighbors, look at lots of youtube videos to see the variety of ways it’s done and how the final result looks.
I appreciate the discussion. First, I am in Charlotte, NC, so snow and ice are not really a concern. We get rain, obviously, but rarely major. With the pavers over the patio, I would have a 2.5" gap to the door sill. And yes, they will grade it away from the house.
The whole page to which I linked is about "** Paving over an existing surface.**. I don’t think there is any mention of concrete over concrete.
Maybe you misunderstand the terms since a lot of cheaper paving is basically concrete slabs. "Pavers are slabs, flags or blocks of various kinds.
From what you say, I think you will probably be okay to pave over the concrete slab. Just be sure that they put a proper support for the extension. I assume that it is for foot traffic only though - not a great idea if you plan to park trucks on it.
Yes, foot traffic only. This is what they say they will be doing: “On the portion of your paver patio outside of the concrete we would do a 6 1/2 inch foundation that would start with a fiber lining. This is important because it keeps the moisture from being able to sit at the surface of your patio. We would then compact in and ABC gravel mix and top with a screening wash. Once we install the pavers we would seal them with a special poly sand. This hardens like concrete between the pavers to ensure that grass does not grow up between them in the future. The pavers are 2 1/4 inch thick and they will slope the patio away from your home so you will not have any issues with water.”
Sounds good