Question about Selective Service and Immigration.

[Sapo]

I just got the letter with the appointment for my naturalization exam. One of the documents they ask for is evidence of Selective Service Registration.

Since I became a Resident after my 26th birthday, I was not required to register. Not only I was not required, I am not eligible to register at all.

So, should I assume that is a form letter that goes out all the same to every applicant and that once I show up there I will explain my situation and it will be waived? Can I somehow get an official document from the SS office saying I am exempt?

I would hate to show up for the appointment to be sent back for a document and have my application postponed for it.

Thanks in advance for any leads.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

If you live in the US, you’re required to register before age 26 whether or not you’re a legal permanent resident.

From the SSA:

Some non-citizens are required to register. Others are not. Noncitizens who are not required to register with Selective Service include men who are in the U.S. on student or visitor visas, and men who are part of a diplomatic or trade mission and their families. Almost all other male noncitizens are required to register, including illegal aliens, legal permanent residents, and refugees. The general rule is that if a male noncitizen takes up residency in the U.S. before his 26th birthday, he must register with Selective Service. For a more detailed list of which non-citizens must register, see Who Must Register - Chart .

If you moved here prior to your 26th birthday, this is going to be a problem for you, I’m afraid.

[Sapo]

I moved to the US well after my 26th b’day, so that should not be an issue.

[Duckster]

I moved to the US well after my 26th b’day, so that should not be an issue.

Bad assumption.

What if I am over age 26 and haven’t registered?
Once you reach age 26, it’s too late to register. Even though you may not be prosecuted, you will be denied student financial assistance, Federal job training, and most Federal employment unless you can provide convincing evidence to the agency providing the benefit you are seeking, that your failure to register was not knowing and willful.

Source: http://www.sss.gov/QA.HTM#quest11
**
Especially see also —> http://www.sss.gov/fsmen.htm**
While you did not move to the US until after you turned 26, your best bet is to contact SSA and straighten it out. (Were you ever in the US prior to age 26?) Otherwise, you risk incorrect records forever following you which may hurt you in the long term. Specifically, you could be denied naturalization and deported, even though you have no legal obligation to register. You would not be the first person in America denied something because the paperwork was not in order. Welcome to post-9/11 America.

[guizot]

I don’t understand the justification for the 26th birthday cut-off. What’s so special about the the number 26? And if someone who, for whatever reason, hasn’t registered, and is 27, wants to register, he can’t.

And why only males?

The draft is voluntary. Why have selective service which is effectively mandatory, and which discriminates?

[Duckster]

I should have quoted this in my last post …

If you did not register with Selective Service, and are now a man over age 25, you may be ineligible for certain Federal or state programs and benefits, including U.S. citizenship. Some agencies may ask you to provide an official response from the Selective Service indicating if you were or were not required to register.

guizot you might want to read here.

[PaulParkhead]

This should not be a problem if you entered the US after age 26. See the USCIS for more information.

@USCIS

Men Not Required to Register

The requirement to register with Selective Service ceases when a man reaches 26 years of age. Men who did not live in the United States between 18 and 26 years of age, and men who lived in the United States between 18 and 26 years of age, but maintained lawful nonimmigrant status for the entire period were not required to register.

Men born after March 29, 1957, and before December 31, 1959, were never under an obligation to register with Selective Service. Proc. No. 4771 and Proc. No. 4360, supra .

[Sapo]

The second link on Duckster’s response has the number I need to call. I am pretty certain of my situation and I know I was never required to register. I had a few short entries as a tourist before my 26th bday, but I entered the US after it.

If that still disqualifies me from citizenship I don’t know, but now I know there is an office that can provide a letter saying what my situation is. I just didn’t want to show up to my appointment emptyhanded and just hope for the best.

I have reason to be hopeful since the site says:

CITIZENSHIP
The U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) makes registration with Selective Service a condition for U.S. citizenship if the man first arrived in the U.S. before his 26th birthday.

so at least the provision exists for people who entered after the 26th.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Sapo

If that still disqualifies me from citizenship I don’t know, but now I know there is an office that can provide a letter saying what my situation is. I just didn’t want to show up to my appointment emptyhanded and just hope for the best.

As long as you have your passport(s) from your previous visits, the entry/exit stamps will show that you were just visiting.

Otherwise, you may need to produce something demonstrating that you were living… wherever you were living. Payroll records, bills, stuff like that.

[Carol_the_Impaler]

I would have to agree with RNATB. I worked for an immigration attorney for awhile, and I would go in with documented proof that you meet the requirement not to register. If it was me, I’d have stuff notarized that can be notarized. You’ll probably not need it, but don’t assume. I’d also bring a copy of the relevant section of the CFR. IOW, find in the law or the regulations the backup for what the USCIS states on its cite. Yes, I’ve had to point out relevant sections of the law or the Code of Federal Regulations to INS officers before.

To be extra-double sure, you could consult with an immigration attorney.

[DGem]

I got the following from the link provided by PaulParkhead for the website of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. http://www.uscis.gov/propub/ProPubVAP.jsp?dockey=cfb5c00bb883c84c3f11906c0ae700fe. The information is near the bottom of the page, and I think it is self explanatory.

Evidence that Registration Was Not Required

Naturalization applicants need only demonstrate that they were 26 years of age or older when they first entered the United States as immigrants to prove that they were not required to register with Selective Service. Proof of an applicant’s age and immigration status should be contained in the applicant’s file. This evidence is all that is necessary to prove that the applicant was not required to register.

[MandaJo]

What if I am over age 26 and haven’t registered?
Once you reach age 26, it’s too late to register. Even though you may not be prosecuted, you will be denied student financial assistance, Federal job training, and most Federal employment unless you can provide convincing evidence to the agency providing the benefit you are seeking, that your failure to register was not knowing and willful.

I take this quote to mean that if you move here at 23, you can’t then “remember” to register at 26 and retroactively fulfill your requirement. If you move here after 26, there’s no way to register.

[Nava]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

As long as you have your passport(s) from your previous visits, the entry/exit stamps will show that you were just visiting.

I don’t know about other countries, but a Spanish passport is considered the property of the Spanish government. I have to hand my old one back when I get a new one. Doesn’t the US government keep track of who has entered and left the country?

[Waffle_Decider]

Your date of birth and the date you became a resident are listed right on the green card. Surely that ought to be proof enough…

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Nava

I don’t know about other countries, but a Spanish passport is considered the property of the Spanish government. I have to hand my old one back when I get a new one. Doesn’t the US government keep track of who has entered and left the country?

That’s odd. When you get a new UK passport they clip the corner off the front cover of the old one and send you both. What are you supposed to do if you have a visa stamp in the old passport?

I imagine things are a bit different nowadays with RFID chips, but foreign nationals don’t have Social Security numbers, and whatever national insurance numbers or other identifiers they may be assigned by their home countries don’t always make good identifiers.

So, keeping track of who enters and leaves the US is a bit hit-or-miss. Even moreso if Sapo has a common name.

If he’s not from one of the visa waiver countries, then things are a bit different because he would have been issued an alien number with the visa.

[Nava]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

That’s odd. When you get a new UK passport they clip the corner off the front cover of the old one and send you both. What are you supposed to do if you have a visa stamp in the old passport?

Get a new Visa. After all, most Visas need to be renewed or reobtained periodically.

I once needed to get a Visa for the US which could have lasted 7 years. So I went and got a fresh passport beforehand (it wasn’t due for renewal for another year, but when I explained why I wanted it, the cops figured it was a fine reason; funny thing is the Visa ended up being needed for only one year and I replaced that passport after only 18 months, in order to get a chipped one).

I have a SSN - a Spanish one (as well as, by now, a US one and a Swiss one and a EU one). I also have a Spanish ID number. My Spanish ID number appears in my passport, my Spanish SS card, my Passport and my Spanish Driving license. It IS my Driving license number, my Tax ID and my Passport number (but not my passport’s booklet number). And whenever I’ve needed to ask the US Government for a new Visa, I’ve had to list the previous ones I’ve had. Even if my name happened to be María García, I expect that each new Visa got added to the file opened when I asked for the first one!

[Carol_the_Impaler]

@Waffle_Decider

Your date of birth and the date you became a resident are listed right on the green card. Surely that ought to be proof enough…

Not necessarily. If you were living here as an undocumented alien prior to your 26th birthday, you’re still required to register with the Selective Service. That’s why I say it’s a good idea for the OP to be able to prove he was *not *living here prior to age 26 (ie - leases, bills, employement records, etc. from the country where he was living prior to 26).

[Sapo]

A bit of additional info that is relevant to my case: I am over 31 now. Which matters because (from the USCIS site):

Applicants Over 31 Years of Age

Failure to register for Selective Service will generally not prevent a man who was over 31 years of age on the day he filed his naturalization application from demonstrating that he is eligible for naturalization. Even if the applicant was required to register and the applicant’s failure to register was knowing and willful, the failure occurred outside of the statutory period during which the applicant is required to establish his attachment to the good order and happiness of the United States. The INS ma y, of course, consider a person’s conduct before the beginning of this period. INA § 101(f) (last sentence) and § 316(e). If the INS denies naturalization to a man who is at least 31, based on his failure to register with Selective Service, the decision must state explicitly the basis for finding that the failure to register warrants denial of naturalization. As a practical matter, a male applicant over 31 years of age who failed to register with Selective Service should, ordinarily, be found eligible for naturalization unless INS has other evidence, in addition to the past failure to register, that demonstrates that the applicant is not well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States.

So it sounds like I am good to go. I entered the US after my 26th, which means I didn’t have to register. And even if I had not, being past 31 means I am “absolved”, as it were (I have a squeaky clean record).

I am still getting that letter from the SSS, though. And printouts of all these relevant pages.

[sailor]

@Nava

I don’t know about other countries, but a Spanish passport is considered the property of the Spanish government. I have to hand my old one back when I get a new one. Doesn’t the US government keep track of who has entered and left the country?

Not true. I have every single passport have had since I was a kid and I also have a bunch of passports which belonged to my parents so this has not been true in many, many decades, if it ever was.

Not only that but the visa on an expired passport is still good and valid so I have travelled with the visa on the expired passport and the current, valid, passport and everything was fine.