Question about Shelley's Frankenstein

Keep in mind I have yet to read the book, but I recently saw the movie version from a few years back.

The question I have is, when Victor goes to “revive” Elizabeth, why did he bother giving her new body parts and sewing her all back up? Why didn’t he just get a new heart from a cadaver and just use that?

Okay, when he created his original creature, he wanted something new, so I can see why he’d use various body parts, rather than just a whole corpse. But this time it was just to bring back this one person, not a new being.

(One of the saddest stories I’ve ever encountered, btw)

Have you ever known a mechanic who didn’t like to “tinker?”

“Well, while we have her opened up, why don’t we regap the plugs, blow out the filters, give her a tune-up…maybe install a set of Holly carbs…” :smiley:

Spoilers for the book follow:

That’s not in the book. In Shelley’s novel, Victor does try to make a female monster to give his first creation some companionship, but then realizes that if there are two of them, they’ll breed and create a race of uber-people who will eventually supplant humanity, so he destroys his lab and the second monster before he animates it. I don’t know why he didn’t just make her without a uterus and/or ovaries, though. Seems that if one has medical knowledge enough to reanimate a corpse made from spare parts, a hysterectomy ought to be small potatoes. Then again, rational thought was never Victor’s strong suit.

I can’t remember if that was before or after Elizabeth gets killed in the book. I’m pretty sure it was before, and Elizabeth’s death was the monster’s revenge for the death of his own “bride.” I do know he never attempted to revive her after his monster strangled her on their wedding night. And the whole scenario is much less tragic, and a lot more of a mind-fuck in the book. There’s some pretty strong hints through out the book that the monster doesn’t exsist at all, and is merely a murderous alter-ego for Victor.

Which movie version was this from, anyway? The Kenneth Brannagh one?

I’m curious as to what hints you mean. It never even crossed my mind that they were the same person. The final scene is after Victor’s death, Walton encounters the Creature face to (horrifying) face. Walton describes the Creature is huge and grotesque. It seems to me that having Victor and the Creature being one person would change the nature of the story. I enjoyed this book very much, and would like to hear any insights you may have.

Yup. It was before.

That would really change it for me. What hints were there?

I always assumed the whole book was an expression of Shelley’s Rousseau-esque belief that people are born good and corrupted by society. The monster’s a rather nice fellow until cruel circumstance and prejudice drive him to the edge and he becomes a monster. The idea was that monsters are made, not born.

If anything, I sided with the creature, not the doctor. I thought Victor was meant to be an unreliable narrator, a voice for the prejudices and evils of society.

Also, at the end of the novel:

[spoiler]“I entered the cabin, where lay the remains of my ill-fated and admirable friend Over him hung a form which I cannot find words to describe…
…He paused, looking on me with wonder; and again turning towards the lifeless form of his creator, he seemed to forget my presence…”
–p. 242 of my annotated 1818 edition

So they’re in the same room together. You could argue that the narrator is dreaming, but I don’t see anything in the text to support that. First he listens to Frankenstein’s last speech, then the doctor dies, then the captain weeps, and then the creature appears.[/spoiler]

It has indeed been argued that there are similarities between Victor and his creature, and that they are in some way doppelgangers of each other, but I don’t think you can push that too far. See the annotations in The Annotated Frankenstein or The Essential Frankenstein (both annotated by Leonard Wolf). The idea was also used to good effect in the made-for-cable version that they did for TNT about ten years ago.
For my money, the overall best version is Horror of Frankenstein, which is very faithful to the book, and made on a much smaller budget than Branaugh’s.

Well, I haven’t read the book since college, so this is going to be terribly vague, but here goes. First of all, Victor is insane. Maybe not gibbering and frothing at the mouth insane, but he’s got a few bats loose in his belfry, at the very least. He also provides the POV for most of the book, which means right off the bat that we’re dealing with an unreliable narrator. Everything that happens once he begins to tell the ship captain his story needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Up until the very end, Victor is the only person who ever sees the monster and lives. He creates both creatures in total solitude (not counting the prescence of the first monster when he creates the second), so there are no witnesses to provide independent confirmation that his experiments work. When he recounts how he created the creatures, his writing becomes dreamlike, and he omits pretty much all specific details on how he did it, suggesting that the experiments are a hallucination. (Obviously, the real reason for this is that Mary Shelley had no idea how one would revitalize a dead body, and the book was written long before George Roddenbury invented the concept of technobabble.) At one point, the monster comes back to confront him, and reveals that it has learned to read and speak English by spying on (and sometimes interacting with) various peasants in the countryside, but we only have the monster’s word that any of these interactions take place. Most of them are so absurd (he learned English by listening to a peasant teach it to a runaway Arabian princess in a barn :rolleyes: ) that it’s easier to consider them to be the narrator’s delusions, and not actual events.

Most tellingly, everyone the monster kills is somebody that Victor would have a reason to want dead. Including Elizabeth. Recall his dream about her before their wedding night, probably meant to be prophetic, but which reads as really disturbingly Freudian. (Especially disturbing, because Freud wouldn’t be born until almost forty years after the book’s publication.) Victor has some very bizarre and conflicted feelings about marrying Elizabeth, although he never consciously admits to them. Now, my memory is failing me a bit here, because the only other victim I can remember is Victor’s hideously arrogant and spoiled cousin, William, whom any rational, thinking human would want to throttle within ten minutes of making his acquaintance. I forgot who all the rest of the monster’s victims were, but I’m fairly certain that Victor had a reason to want all of them dead, although, again, he never admits such motivations. Victor didn’t create the monster as a seperate being made out of spare parts, or even as a science-engendered, physiologically different alter-ego in the mode of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, but rather, Frankenstein’s monster is an alternate personality created by Victor’s sublimated emotions, chiefly anger and sexual frustration. The novel is neither fantastic or proto-science fiction, but the entirely pedestrian account of a man with acute schizophrenia and multiple-personality disorder.

Of course, the end of the novel blows the lid off this theory, as an independent party (the ship captain) finally encounters the monster shortly after Victor’s death. But I got the distinct impression when I read the novel that this was a deliberate Twilight Zonish “twist” ending: the monster we are meant to assume is a figment of a madman’s delusions turns out to be a very real, flesh-and-blood creature. If you can read the novel with absolutely no preconceived notions of what the story is actually about (which is, basically, impossible, thanks to more than a century of film adaptations), the whole thing can be read as one of the most effective pieces of literary misdirection of the 19th century.

To be clear, I’m not claiming for a minute that Mary Shelley intended such an interpretation. I’m just contending that such an interpretation is wholly consistent with what she wrote. I belong to the school of thought that holds any interpretation is valid, regardless of authorial intent, so long as it can be supported by the text. I also admit that my interpretation of Frankenstein was likely heavily influenced by my having seen Fight Club for the first time a few weeks prior to reading the book. My interpretation is not meant to be exclusive of any other interpretation, just a different way to approach the work. My interpretation is not valid for employees of Frankenstein, Inc, or their friends or relatives. Some restrictions apply, void where prohibited by law, ask your doctor for details, and so forth.

Yeah, I have Salman Rushdie on line 4 for you… :wink:

I never really bought that line of thinking. However, I did find it a very convenient argument when I was writing my last English essay, and discovered that the author had specifically denied my interpretation :wink:

My other problem with your argument is it that seems to assume a lot of psychological understanding, as you say, 40 years before Freud – hell, it was even before William James. I’m big on context when it comes to interpreting a work, and I’d be pretty impressed if any author of that period was already considering these ideas.

I don’t think it necessarily requires Shelley to understand psychology as a discrete science, she just needs to be a good observer of human behavior. Freud himself observed human behavior, and designed a theory he felt explained that behavior. Assuming his theory is accurate (and that’s a pretty big ass) it should be retro-activly applicable to any fictional character who is reasonably realistic. Human behavior didn’t change to come into line with Freud’s theories, Freud’s theories explained human behavior as it already exsisted. If Freud’s observations were accurate (which I feel they were, although I disagree with his conclusions) and if Mary Shelley created a believable, lifelike character in Victor Frankenstein (which I feel she did, although that’s a purely subjective judgement), than Victor’s behavior ought to be explicable within the confines of Freudian theory.

Disclaimer: I am not a Freudian, nor do I have any particular expertise in Freudian theory beyond a very general survey of his writings.

I remember that. My thought upon reading this was, “So Dr. Frankenstein can create a living, breathing artificial human being from lifeless tissue – but he can’t perform a tubal ligation?”

I’ve heard this argument before. I’ve also seen that in more or less every case, ever, it leads inevitably to people pulling crap out of their arse and defending it on the slimmest of arguments, and then saying that there’s some damned line that supports it so its a valid interpretation.

I’m not saying that’s what you’re doing here. Wait, no, I am saying that’s what you’re doing here. Maybe I was to harsh in saying it, but I stand by that. Your interpretation is a wild misconstrument of the entire character, point, and tone of the book.

The real world equivelant is talking Newtonian physics, saying that there is evidence for it, and then dismissing Einstein as being merely another “possibly valid” interpretation.

Then Maggie laughed.

She’s such a trooper.

French, actually.

I don’t remember William being characterized this way, or much at all. Besides, Victor was still in Ingolstadt (in a feverish state, being tended by Clerval) when William was killed in Switzerland.

Yes. And?

That is precisely what I’m doing here. What of it?

I’m sure the novel will survive my ravishing. It’s just a book. There’s no need to take it so personally.

Bad analogy. Fiction isn’t physics, and vice versa.

Loopus: I almost said French, but I couldn’t remember for sure.

It should be noted, however, that Shelly’s novel doesn’t even say that he built the monsters from corpses. As I remember, Shelly’s description is vague enough that it’s possible that Frankenstein was creating life out of bulk chemicals, or something. (Stem cells, maybe?)

I think there’s even a line at the beggining where Victor says that he found that it was impossible to restore life to dead matter, although he could give life to normally inert matter.

Ah, here we go, Chapter 4…

So, it’s possible—probable, actually—that Shelly wasn’t imagining Victor pieceing corpses together, but that he was…I dunno, growing them in vats, or something. Which might explain why he couldn’t make the female sterile. I don’t know why he couldn’t sterilize her after bringing her to life…unless the monsters were like the Thing from Another World and didn’t have normal internal organs. But the monster seemed human enough, despite being ugly, so there’s no reason to assume that Frankenstein-type monsters would have a completely exotic physiology. (Although it’s possible. We’ll never know.)

Of course, we have to remember…for all his scientific brillience, Victor Frankenstein was a total git, even assuming that the story he told was completely accurate and unbiased. If he hadn’t flaked out upon creating the original monster in the first place, nothing bad would have happened at all. His “concerns” about the male and female monsters reproducing was probably nothing more than a paranoid panic attack.

An important aspect of understanding the novel Frankenstein [ul]
[li]The Author is a woman.[/li][li]Mary Shelley was pregnant, out of wedlock, when she wrote it.[/li][li]Doctor Frankenstein is creating life in an unnatural fashion.[/li][li]The major theme is the violation of the Natural Order by misusing Science.[/li][li]Thus, Frankenstein is usurping the right to create life, exclusive to women, who bear children.[/li][li]Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley is also reflecting on her own ambivalence towards bearing her child.[/li][/ul]

Your views?

Ah, that explains why I don’t care much for your interpetation! I’m not saying it’s wrong, because I too feel that people shouldn’t fall victim to the intentional fallacy, but I don’t like it for the same reason I didn’t like Fight Club. That’s just not the way schizophrenics behave. It’s not the way people with dissociative identity disorder behave. It’s the way movie madmen behave, and I’ve long found such stories both irritating and boring.