Question for contrail conspiracists

Wait, explain what you mean by ‘carriers of other material’. Carry from where to where? How does the material get into the contrail? How does it leave the contrail and where is it supposed to go?

You equip the plane to spray the material out into the atmosphere behind the plane, so it mixes in with the vapor/droplets/particulate that forms the contrail. I suspect aeronautical engineers can figure out how to do that, without me explaining it to them – contrails are not an unexplained mystery. It merges with the atmosphere, and circulates down to the lower levels where its effects can be felt by respirating organisms. A “contrail” and a “chemtrail” are not the same thing, but can appear indistinguishable by observers on the ground.

I am not a contrail conspiracist, I’m just answering your questions. Is it being done? I don’t know. Can it be done? I don
t see why not. Would the government want to do it? We’re not allowed to know that.

They’d be detectable by private sector investigators, who have free access to the manufacture and distribution of those devices.

I’m not a contrail conspiracist, I’m just answering your questions.

Any chemical in a “chemtrail” would be so diluted by the time it hit the ground that it would nearly worthless.

It’s not that implausible - according to my quick calculations, to make 3 kg of water vapor that you see in the contrail, it takes about 2 kg of jet fuel. So the contrails that you see are, in weight, on the same order of magnitude as the fuel that the planes are already carrying. Of course, that means that the planes would need to carry fuel PLUS the chemical, but on the other hand they wouldn’t need to carry all those people or freight. But it’s not implausible just because of the weight.
The idea of chemtrails is my favorite conspiracy theory, just because it’s a good marker for nutty thinking. You can’t believe in the chemtrail conspiracy and also have any grasp of reality.

And these people really exist - just take a look at the comments following these articles:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/27/az-residents-at-chemtrail-hearing-were-being-sprayed-like-were-bugs-and-its-really-not-okay/

The fact that a person who espouses an idea is an idiot and argues for it illogically, is not by itself proof of its falsehood. If it were, that alone would be proof there is no God.

The government has the technical capability.
The government has the opportunity.
The government has the enforceable secrecy to escape detection.
The government has a history of nefarious business as well as ill-conceived misadventures…
The government has the motive to at least test the principle to see if it might have useful application in distributing harmful agents for warfare, crowd control, etc.

Which of those statements is patently “nutty”?

I am not a contrail conspiracist, I’m just answering your questions.

Belief in chemtrails is proof there is no God.

No, it doesn’t.

No, it doesn’t.

No, it doesn’t.

Not on this scale and never unconcealed.

This is nutty.

One is nutty and the rest are idiotic.

[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase]

One is nutty and the rest are idiotic.
[/QUOTE]
And none address the central problem*: if all these mind-altering body-sickening chemicals are being dumped into the atmosphere at high altitudes, to disperse willy-nilly over large areas, how are the plotters managing to avoid inhaling them?

Really tiny oxygen masks? Secret antidotes? Is there a master race that lives entirely indoors in climate-controlled safety?

*also, the idea that such a plot could be carried out secretly on the massive scale that chemtrail conspiracy theorists envision is moronic in the extreme.

**the “just answering questions” construct is my new favorite, supplanting “just asking questions”.
I am not a conspiracy debunker. I’m just providing rational answers. :smiley:

Dihydrogen monoxide.

gasp Poison!

I’m reminded of that scene in Hunt for Red October where Alec Baldwin is asking his submarine expert friend about the new Russian sub:

**“Would you launch an ICBM horizontally?”

“Sure. Why would you want to?”**

I got into this end of it with my friend too. Very impractical way of accomplishing… what exactly? Even if you had the means to dump chemicals in that manner, why would you? He seemed to think it was to do with weather control, which again raised the question… why?

If I were a super-villain, what would that sort of subtle weather control do for me? Say chemtrails, as envisioned by the CT crowd, actually could CAUSE global warming. Why would you? In order to corner the market on those new light bulbs? I could think of an easier way to make a buck without having to bother with covert, costly and inefficient chemical spraying.

And you figure shadowy government agents are able to sneak on to commercial airliners and plant mysterious packages inside them in the middle of major airports without anyone noticing?

And tens of thousands of airframe mechanics and aircraft enginge manufacturing employees are somehow sworn to secrecy.

Yet the president gets blown by an intern…

And what about contrails from German, Japanese ,and communist Russian aircraft ?
Even Chinese serviced Migs ?

Yes they have indeed.

Original paper is here: http://ciresweb.colorado.edu/science/groups/pielke/classes/atoc7500/knollenberg72.pdf

So, taking the average figure of about 31kg of water per metre of visible contrail, and the average cruising speed of a Boeing 747 of about 560mph (250 metres per second), we can see that an airliner is creating about 7.75 tonnes of contrail every second!

The 747-400 has a maximum take-off weight of 397 tonnes, and an unladen weight of 180 tonnes, giving a maximum load-carrying capacity of 217 tonnes (including fuel!)

Even if it had no fuel on board, it could only carry enough “chem” to make 28 seconds of “trail”.

Do you see what is contradictory there?

You may have heard of a dude named Eric Snowden. Nefarious business the government wants to keep secret eventually isn’t.

Unless the chemicals are already in the atmosphere waiting for a passing jet to be activated. :eek:
:smiley:

I guess the natural response is that the Government is bi-polar. On one hand, they are inept and get caught at everything, but on the other hand, they are really sneaky when they want to be and never get caught.

Aside from the what would they want to spray and the why they would want to, I still want someone who is just answering questions to tell me if they started this whole sneaky mess back in WW2 with the B17s. It certainly makes sense! I guess they needed a pilot program and those 1000 plane missions would have been a good choice.

I will say that the last CTer I heard, said that contrails weren’t always bad ones; it was only the contrails that were really persistent in the sky that were the chemtrails.

You are thinking inside the box again.

A chem distribution scheme that had the devices right where any Bubba or Cletus could find them would fail almost immediately. Someone would ask “What is this thing on my catalytic converter? Why does my air conditining filter smell like chloroform?”

Because auto mechanics and HVAC technicians are normal, salt-of-the-earth type people; the very folks these conspiracies are aimed against. Not like those elite aircraft mechanics.

You know, they would not let an ordinary person even look at the engines of an airliner nowadays? What are they hiding?

And who says these are actually commercial jets? A chem distribution plane painted to look like a commercial flight makes more sense, especially since you really can’t see much detail from the ground. It also eliminates the whole “Where do they hide the tanks of chemicals?” if the entire passenger compartment has been converted.

Which, of course, they are. More than 99.99% of the mass of a chemtrail consists of a crystalline polar chemical that undergoes a phase change as a direct result of emissions from aircraft!!! And they call this harmless!!!11 :stuck_out_tongue:
On another forum I am having fun posting predictions for whether chemtrails will be visible over my house the next day. I’ve got seven out of seven correct so far, based on nothing more than a bit of weather model data and a small amount of number crunching. Either that or I’m in cahoots with the sprayers, of course…