Question for Monday morning quarterbacks

Thanks to everyone who answered my lowest attendance question previously. It was an interesting read, even if a solid answer cannot be reached. I fear my next question will also be hard to answer but I figure I’ll let the community decide that. Below I have compiled a list of sports-related activities:

  1. NFL Football
  2. NHL Hockey
  3. NBA Basketball
  4. NASCAR Racing (some people will argue this is not a sport; I’m not commenting)
  5. MLB Baseball
  6. WWE Wrestling (this is why I had to say sports-related)

This is the list of sports/activities that I’ve overheard drunks, braggarts and assorted bigheads say that could do better than a professional engaged in said sport/activity during a random game at various times in my life. The question is: Which of these sports/activities is hardest to succeed at if you were to attempt it cold turkey with no prior experance, as a person with United States average build? (We can count “succeed” as meeting the mean statistical average for the primary performance targets for said sport/activity unless you have a better idea)

Oh yeah…as concerns the mean average stats for wrestling. In wrestling, since as we all know the outcome is predeterimed, I think its fair to go buy “getting over with the fans” as a measure of success, because in the WWE, the primary driver of one’s carreer is the amount of money the company can make off you, either as a face (good guy) or a heel. (bad guy)

Ok. Succeed. Right. Ok. Here goes.

  1. NFL Football - you’re gonna get killed. Of course there is one position where you might not get killed. Kicker. Most average people can’t kick worth a damn. However, that’s our only shot of survival.

  2. NHL Hockey - you’re gonna get killed. And if you’re like most average Americans you can’t ice skate worth a damn. Maybe you could be a goalie and wear extra padding.

  3. NBA Basketball - you won’t get killed. You also won’t score a freaking point. The average person is way too short and way too slow. Maybe you could stand on the 3 point line and hope for a breakaway. Course your team is playing a man down on defense. Oh well - it’s your only hope.

  4. NASCAR - you’re gonna crash - getting killed might be incidental. At least driving is something the average person does. You’re still gonna crash when everyone is whizzing around you and drafting, etc. But maybe you won’t die.

  5. MLB Baseball - well in the American League you could be a DH. All you gotta do is get out there and hit the ball. Course that’s pretty dang hard.

  6. WWE Wrestling - you’re gonna get killed. These guys are trained professionals ON THE JUICE. They will try to bodyslam you gently, but the crowd’s gotta buy it. Translation: you’re gonna get killed. Maybe you can sleep with a writer or something, but count on taking a high dosage of vitamin Advil after your debut.

Ok, that’s my analysis. Here’s my conclusion:

Best chance of succeeding: WWE Wrestling - the writers can make it work. Hell the other guy can just take a dive.

Second: Baseball - play DH and just swing away (or sit back and get walked maybe).

Third: Basketball - just line up on the 3 point line and bomb away - hope that no-one smacks the ball down your face and breaks your nose.

Fourth: NASCAR (oh yeah - you’re not just driving - you’re driving for 3 hours).

Fifth: Football (because you’re gonna get killed).

Sixth: Hockey (because of the damn skates).

  • Peter Wiggen

Ah yes, I knew I forgot something. Parade? Here’s the obligatory rain.

If you’re just some average dude, you’re not going to succeed at any of these things. These people are professionals for a reason - they are the cream-de-la-creme of all the people who tried them growing up.

YES - maybe you can DO the exercise in question. You may be able to skate around. You may be able to shoot a basketball. You may be able to drive. But…

NO - you will not succeed against trained, talented professionals.

It’s just not realistic. Ok. Now nobody else has to do it.

I couldn’t do ANY of those things well on any kind of regular basis.

Pro football is, obviously, the hardest. If I took just one hard shot from a Jack Tatum, I’d be incapacitated for a week. A pro football player has to be prepared to take a shot from a Tatum, then pick himself up, dust himself off, and go do it again another 30 or 40 times.

I’d be a HORRIBLE baseball or basketball player over the long run, but there’s an outside shot I might get lucky and sink an occasional foul shot or manage a weak base hit now and then. Not often, but once in a blue moon, it could happen.

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The mod airs it out to the IMHO zone - HE SCORES!

Moved.

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PeterWiggen nailed it.

Assuming by listing a sport and not a position that you mean one could pick the position they wanted to play that is. If you had to be a winger or a point guard or a fullback, etc., the chances of success are pretty much nil.

And despite personal feelings about NASCAR being a sport or not, it’s a heck of a lot harder than one might initially think.

None. An average person has a better chance of becoming the CEO of a Fortune 500 company than succeeding at a professional sport.

I’d say MLB baseball without a doubt.

Here’s my reasoning:

-NFL Football - Yeah, you’ll get killed. But there’s actually a few things you could do on a football field where you actually may not completely destroy the team and where you may not actually get killed. You could for example be a quarterback that simply handst he ball off to the running back every single play. Most guys could pull that off. If the defense penetrates to you before you can hand off you’ll have to instantly collapse on the ground so they won’t hit you.

-NBA Basketball - Too slow and too short means you won’t be able to do anything at all throughout the game, but if you ever get fouled you have a good sporting chance of sinking a foul shot. I’m terrible at basketball but just goofing off as a teenager I could make foul shots 80% of the time.

-NHL - Well I think we have to assume that you have SOME skating experience. Personally where I grew up everyone skated a little. None of us were great like figure skaters or hockey players but we also weren’t so bad we fell all over the ice. If you no skating experience then you literally cannot play hockey, you won’t even be able to move around. If we don’t assume you have some skating experience then I’ll have to say hockey is the hardest. The NFL and the NBA are tough, but everyone can shoot a basketball or hand a football off, or even if you’re feeling suicidal tuck the ball in and foolishly try to run past the defense.

-NASCAR Racing - You’d have no experience at all going 180 miles per hour while other drivers try to screw you up, you’d be out of the race within 20 seconds so this one is up there for hardest as well.

Plus, there’s only like what, 40 people in the entire world that are NASCAR drivers?

-WWE Wrestling - Wrestling requires a lot of skill, actually. You have to know how to take a fall without really hurting yourself, how to perform moves on someone without breaking their neck, be able to move guys who weigh 250 lbs. + around, and etc. However if you’re paired up with someone who is talented in selling a match then they’ll be able to make you look at least “okay” to the fans.

The reason I say MLB is the hardest is because even the aboslute best of the best, the players that actually make the Major Leagues and become GREAT major leaguers are only successful at the plate about 32% of the time.

You have under 0.6 seconds to see the ball, decide whether or not to swing, and then to actually swing the bat in a complete motion with enough force to put it into play. It requires an incredible amount of in born reflexes.

To show which sport is actually hardest we should give the person like a week of training.

With WWE you’d be able to at least be a decent-looking “unskilled” wrestler in a week’s time.

Within a week you will be able to throw a football, hell people do it for the Dr. Pepper Million Dollar challenge. And while you can’t read a defense or be very accurate you could probably still complete a screen pass.

NBA you’d still be limited to foul shots. But you may get enough training to at least be better at drawing fouls.

NHL you wouldn’t fall all over the place but would still be a completely worthless member of your team.

NASCAR - I dunno. I have no experience at all with driving at 180 MPH and never watch it but instinctively I don’t think you’d make much progress in a week’s time, I dunno though.

MLB - Still won’t ever get a hit. The ball just comes too fast. You also couldn’t field the infield because you need really good reaction times for that. Catcher also requires too much skill. Outfield would be your best bet for fielding but most people won’t naturally have the speed or throwing strength/accuracy to be worthwhile at any outfield position.

The average man would succeed at none of them. In the team sports, I think you would hurt your team worse in baseball.

Football could put you at wide receiver and never throw to you, and just take into account that you’d always miss your assigned blocks.

Basketball players could simply tell you to stay out of the way and they’d play four on five, ditto hockey.

In baseball, (sans DH rule) you’d have to take your turn at bat, and a major league pitcher would never walk you or allow you to get a hit. You’d have to play some position in the field and eventually the ball would be hit to you. IMHO the average citizen would make, maybe, 20% of the plays that a pro would make. (Outfield only) The average man would never make the throws required of outfielders. You’d be the most unpopular player in your team’s history!

George Plimton went to training camp with the Lions back when were still decent - the Alex Karras and Nightrain Lane era, although I think Karras was suspended that season. He said that even making a clean handoff was a lot harder than he’d thought, and he failed very often when they played at full speed.

He also went to camp as a goalie with the Bruins. You’re right: his skating really limited him even as a goalie. He was up against players who could hit the post on purpose if they weren’t in game flow with defenders on them.

The British tv show “Faking It” took a male ballet dancer, gave him a month’s training at wrestling, and when compared to three other wrestlers (with about year’s experience, I think), he was not picked out as the faker by the judges. Of course the producers picked him because he already understood footwork and how to move exactly as told.

I think Wiggin is pretty much on target.

Something to remember about hockey; there is nothing about the game that is natural. There is nothing instinctual about skating or handling, passing and shooting a puck with a stick. It is entirely a skill game and even those that are moderately good at it have spent years learning the skills. Goalies are actually excellent skaters and can fake it better at the skating positions than the skaters can pretend to be goalies. Asking someone to play hockey is like asking the average person to put on a juggling exhibition.

To refine the question you might want to ask at what sport would the average schmoe have a chance of scoring.

Probably the best chance would be to kick an extra point or very short field goal in football. Other than that, no chance. Even with a great offensive line you probably couldn’t hit the hole fast enough. A decent defensive back would never let you catch a pass.

In basketball you could hang in the backcourt, get a pass and launch a Hail Mary. Good luck, schmuck!

In baseball you could get a hit in only the luckiest of circumstances. The best chance would be to get hit by a pitch and have someone hit a homerun behind you. In any event, it could only happen if the opposition made a huge mistake.

Car racing, forget about winning anything much less finishing a race.

Wrestling, anything can be fixed.

NHL Hockey - no chance for ever scoring, ever!

You left out one big time sport, boxing. Now there’s the one where your chance of getting seriously hurt or killed would be a matter seconds. Probably the most dangerous undertaking for the unskilled. Even a bad professional boxer can be hurt bad very quickly by a good pro.

Bottom line, armchair athletes are pathetic losers.

I’m going to reframe the question a bit, and here’s why: If you were to take the average fan and stick them in there, you’d basicaly be taking a 5’9", overweight, out of shape, middle aged man and asking him to compete with finely tuned athletes. More than likely, half these guys would be injured simply trying to sprint (sprains and pulled muscles).

A better question would be to take a marginally athletic fan and ask him to try. Say a guy in his mid to upper twenties, in reasonable physical shape. I’ll use myself as a fair benchmark, 29 yrs old, 6’3" and about 220 lbs, and frequently plays in coed club leagues and hits the gym a couple times a week.

I’m also going to assume that the fan in question has at least played the sport in question some, at a low level like maybe high school at most and more typically in club and sandlot leagues. I do this so that I can basically I can take away the “can’t skate at all” variable. If a guy has at least been on a ice rink before, thrown/caught a football and swung a baseball bat you can come to some semblance of consistency. I make this assumption so that I can factor out the ranodmness of the question, I mean probably 40% of the population can ice skate to some degree, if you frame the question so that you aren’t guessing if they can skate or not you’re able to focus on the skills involved only.

The last addition to the question is that I’ll propose that the “average fan” be placed in the sports training camp (or equivalent) phase of the season as opposed to dropped in the middle of a game on a team of strangers. This allows the average fan to at least learn the tactical and strategic concepts of the game, play in a team concept, and allows them to find a niche where they have at least some competence.

So, with those assumptions in place, here’s my list, from easiest to hardest:

WWE Wrestling - These guys are without a doubt, excellent athletes, but the fact that it’s all scripted makes this clearly the easiest for the average fan to perform in. There’s little doubt that the writers could concieve plenty of situations where a relative weakling can upend the show’s stars. Hell, I wouldn’t put it past Vince to actually use this storyline. I can even imagine the fans buying into it with vigor, call it the Home Alone Wrestlemania.

Auto Racing - This is probably going to be contraversial amongst racing fans, but hear me out. Remember we’re allowing the fan a chance to practice some, taking the early months of the season to go all Cole Trickle on us and learn the lingo and the physics involved. Everyone has some experience driving, and most have some experience racing (think go karts, bikes, running) and can at least contrive some strategies to try and implement. There’s also a certain amount of inherent ability here. Some people are just good at racing, comes natural to them, and the fact that physical size, strength and agility are all secondary to racing skills you could have a chance of our “average” fan becoming a racing savant. You could reasonably assume that the fan could develop enough endurance and a comfort level at speed to perhaps find their calling as a racer.

NBA Basketball - My argument for this one can be summed up in two words, Steve Kerr. The guy was a very good athlete and a hell of a shooter, but his phisical stature and raw athleticism wasn’t much outside of the normal. Using myself as the benchmark, I know I’m taller and stronger than he is firsthand. Certainly you can’t assume that the average fan is going to find himself to be one of the best pure shooters in recent memory, but you could argue that a guy of similar size and athletic ability wouldn’t kill the team. We’re not asking the guy to step in a guard KG, but there’ have been alot of average sized guys who were able to fill a role admirablaly on some great teams. We can assume an average fan has a not impossible chance of playing just enough defense, making the right pass and hitting open shots to be successful.

MLB Baseball - I think there’s a big jump between these first three and the final three as far as the relative likelyhood of success. Still, of these most challenging three I think baseball is the most likely. My argument for this is due to the fact that while the skills are amazingly difficult at that level, there’s not as high a requirement on uncommon physical strength and size. Basically someone of my size and strength isn’t automatically excluded. The DH position is also a big advantage over the other sports, while it’s unlikely that a person would turn out to be a hitting specialist, it allows one additional path to success. The more likely scenario is that a guy in spring training develops into a passable catcher. Of all positions it’s the one where the inability to hit is the most aceptable. Catching takes a degree of intelligence that exceeds every other position with a compromise on running, throwing and catching skills. This sounds like a typical person best chance at success. If this average guy is reasonably bright it seems believable that he could be coached up to be a decent pitch caller. The variety of paths to success in baseball also helps our argument. Even if he can’t be a catcher for whatever reason, he might be able to be a fair utility player if he learns to throw and catch fairly well. Finally, if the guy finds out that he simply cannot hit at all, there’s still a path if he happens to be a lefty with a strong arm. Baseballs preference for lefties really allows a margin of error on our rookie’s chances.

NHL Hockey - Remember, we’re assuming that the guy already can skate at a fair level. While he’ll certainly get smoked from end to end on the ice, he’ll at least be able to move and get out of the way. Still, stick handling and shooting are amazingly hard. Not quite as tough as hitting a baseball, but probably similar to hitting a golf ball as far as the learning curve goes. The variety of skills every hockey player reqires, and the relative lack of specialization makes hockey seem very unlikely for our fan. Size and strength are critically important and a slow weakling can’t be hidden as they can in other sports listed before this one. Some might guess that goalie is a possible path, but I doubt it. I admit to never playing hockey, so perhaps my undertsanding is wrong but goalie is probably the hardest position, not the most achievable. Most of the best hockey players marvel at the skill of some goalies, and there’s virtually no interchangability between positions. Unlike DH’s and catchers where players can transition back and forth, the fact that the Lemiux and Gretskys of the world would probably suck as goalies makes me doubt that there’s any more chance of our average guy being good at that than becoming a forward or defensmen. All in all, the only thing that makes this easier than football is that our “average guy” is relatively similar in physical stature if not in overall strength and speed.

NFL Football - This to me is the least likely. The size, speed and strength of these players is so far beyond what anyone can consider average it’s bordering on impossible for a typical guy to compete. Even if our guy discovered himself to be a savant in regards to throwing the ball or reading defenses/offenses, he still wouldn’t have a prayer of having the body to implement them. In baseball, basketball, racing, hockey and most other game there’s at least a razor-thin possibility that our average guy discovers a uncanny ability to hit, throw, shoot, drive or goaltend that was never before realized. In football, even if he found the skills, he couldn’t hope to develop the size and speed he’d need to survive in any capacity. Of course, there’s kickers, but everyone knows kickers aren’t football players ;).

Agreed. Even if you can skate, doing it while handling the puck is hugely more difficult. Toss in a bunch of guys looking to take the puck from you and you have a near impossibility.

In football, you have to run and hold on to something. Most people can do that. For hockey you have to learn a new way of moving and put it together with an unfamiliar set of arm movements to move something that doesn’t behave like a ball does.

I give hockey the edge over football for that reason, followed by Nascar (crash city), NBA, MLB, and WWE.

While I agree that the learning curve for hockey is probably steeper than for any of the other sports, once the fan gets his legs under him, so-to-speak, and is able to skate and puckhandle he’s al least has a chance of cotributing something to the team.

In football, while everyone can run while holding something, they just can’t ever hope to develop the physical gifts to do anything.

With all the sports there are a couple of key factors, skills and physical ability. In all of them a average person could develop their skills over time, and in some they could train their bodies for strength and endurance to a degree, but no amount of time in the gym is going to make the average guy capable to being a NFL running back or WR. And it’s a very long shot that they’d be able to develop the skills to be any good at hockey, it’s just slightly to this side of impossible.

I think you’ve overrated football a bit.

Think about it like this, Division II football really isn’t that hard to get into. On a lot of teams there’s nothing preventing a fairly normal person, who played football in high school, from getting in on the game.

And occasionally a division II player ends up on an NFL team, it’s actually not all that uncommon. And it’s not uncommon at all that some might end up in the CFL.

And division II teams can regularly at least be competitive when playing a division IA team. And Division IA teams even more regularly have NFL players (Air McNair was a Division IA player.) So I mean we’ve seen evidence of fairly normal guys standing and doing their job on the same field as future NFLers. Obviously NFL play is ages above Division II or Division IA, because the NFL concentrates all of the best NCAA players into one league.

I don’t know, ask a rookie (who’s likely spending at least one season on the bench just to learn the system) if the NFL is like college ball and unanimously they admit that it’s faster paced, more complicated, and that everyone hits much, much harder.

I think all the points about the pro sports would apply to collegiate level sports as well. While these aren’t professionals, they’re still kids who have largely spent most of their lives learning and training and playing the game. John Q. Public would have only a slightly better chance of stepping into a college level sport and succeeding over a pro level.

The argument you’ve made could easily be translated onto every other sport in the discussion. You can say the same thing about Indepentant league baseball and the progression the MLB, about Jr. Sprints to the IRL/NASCAR, about various semi-pro hockey leagues and the NHL, and about the And-1 basketball tour and the NBA. While you can make that slipppery slope argument about football, it in no way explains how it’s been overrated as far as achievability goes relative to the others.

I personally think you’re under estimating the challenge that exists in getting on the field in even DIII football. Most “average” fans probably couldn’t even start on their high school teams, let alone one of those football crazy towns’ teams. That opinion aside, your argument doesn’t hold water since it applies equally to all the sports discussed here.

Hey, don’t sell yourself short, Tatum’s got to be over 55 years old by now, I seriously doubt he could still be “The Assasin” he used to be.

Face it, folks. If you had ever been good enough at any sport to make the pros, scouts would have been sniffing your tracks. Most athletes who get invited to try out for the pros don’t make the cut. Of those who get to training camp, thousands are washed out and don’t make the team. Many more are let go as rookies.

If you were really good enough, you’d be playing or coaching. You’re not. You are entitled to groan when something goes wrong on the field; everybody is. If you have never been a pro, though, your criticism carries no weight. You are a piker, like the rest of us.