Do you hear a significant difference between what US citizens think of as standard American English as spoken by news anchors and so forth, and our regional accents, and do you perceive our SAE as relatively unaccented?
By the same token, and this is directed at Brits specifically: given that you manage to have a pretty broad range of some very strng accents in a very tiny drop of land… what do YOU consider the British equivalent of what Americans hear as flat, unaccented speech?
Because in spite of the fact that non-Americans hear an accent in any American, I dont’ think that most Americans could recognize and imitate Standard American English the way Brits can recognize and imitate pretty much all varieties of British accents, from the most posh on down, which tells me that you guys don’t really have anything you consider a sort of standardized, flat, unaccented version of British accent.
But of course I could be completely wrong, which is why I ask.
Also… do Aussies have a lot of internal variety that they perceive in their own accent? Because as an American with something of an ear for subtle differences, I have to say the most I’ve ever picked up on is thicker vs. lighter, I’ve never really heard radically different kinds of Aussie accents the way Britain has Cockney, Yorkshire, geordie, LIverpool, Received, etc., which are all pretty distincitvely different, and of course America has New York, Boston, misc. Southern (which most Americans can’t even differentiate if they aren’t from the south themselves, but a Texan and a Kentuckian and Tennessean and a Virginian do not actually have the same accent, although the accents from all those places are considered southern). The differences between Northern and Southern Ireland are easy to hear, and Canadians as well (Americans living close to Canada sound similar, like the folks in North Dakota).
Yes, American newscasters tend not to sound like real people.
I don’t know what you mean by unaccented, we all have accents. I can comprehend easily what most US newscasters are saying if that’s what you’re talking about.
In the Wiki article, they compare it to Received English, but I don’t know that that really works for what I’m talking about, since what I’ve heard casually from actual Brits is that Received is considered very distinctive in itself, which I dont’ think Standard American is. The defining feature of SAE is its very lack of distinctiveness.
Which is kind of what leads to my question: as much as I know know know that SAE sounds accented to non-Americans, it seems that SAE is so bland and featureless that it kind of stands for the most basic way possible to speak English, and it seems like even non-Americans would sort of hear it like that as well.
But I’m sure they will say not, so I’m wondering what they consider, within their own universe of accents, to be their equivalent of bland, featureless, completely non-distinctive speech that could come from anywhere in their country. (SAE is found primarily in the West, when it comes to people who speak that way naturally, vs. people who worked to rid themselves of regional accents. The Western U.S. states do have recognizable speech patterns, but they are far from universal among us and even at their worst they aren’t really accents as much as they are mannerisms, in my view: think Valley girls. Most of the people I know who were raised in California or Washington or Oregon don’t have anything much in the way of any accent.)
Do you hear a significant difference between what US citizens think of as standard American English as spoken by news anchors and so forth, and our regional accents:
Yes
…and do you perceive our SAE as relatively unaccented?
No - it sounds ‘American’ and therefore accented.
By the same token, and this is directed at Brits specifically: given that you manage to have a pretty broad range of some very strng accents in a very tiny drop of land… what do YOU consider the British equivalent of what Americans hear as flat, unaccented speech?
I don’t believe there is one. RP sounds like RP, so it has the accent of RP - if that makes sense.
There are some regional differences in Australia, but they are pretty minor. As you say, the main difference is between what is normally called Broad Australian versus Educated or Cultivated Australian (your “thicker vs. lighter”). Broad Australian is also called “Strine”, after the alleged pronunciation of “Australian” in that accent. My feeling is that the regional differences in New Zealand English (North Island versus South Island) are bigger than those in Australian English.
RP is kinda like what you mean with SAE, in that you can hear it on people from anywhere in the country if they’re upper-middle-class (Tony Blair was originally from Scotland, for example, but you’d never know it). It definitely always has a class element, though, even in the South-East of England.
But I don’t think there is any accent which is bland and featureless, including SAE.
Yes, I can hear the differences between American accents, though presumably not as much as Americans can, and there are only a small number I can actually identify.
Nope, you’re just seeing it from within the context of your accent. There may be no regional variation, but it isn’t bland - it’s just that you think it is by constant exposure.
Similarly, RP in English contexts is perceived as bland and featureless, but every vowel and consonant is arbitrary.
To answer another of your questions, I can identify New England, with exceptional mention going to Massachusets, the midwest, Deep South, Western (Texas), and California. But I have lived in the states so probably have an unfair advantage. People in the northern states sound like Canucks to me.
Can I get a brief hijack? As a native Californian (and I am told I have a heavy-ish California accent) what the heck does a Californian sound like? I think we sound like SAE, but clearly I am wrong.
As an Englishman I can tell American accents apart, although I can’t necessarily link them with specific areas. At the very least there are three clearly distinct accents: Marissa Tomei in My Cousin Vinny, Diamond Joe Quimby and Cowboys.
American native here, but it is important to consider that regional accent differences tend to be stronger the longer a population speaking a language is present in the area. With England, it makes a lot of sense for there to be huge variations because people have been speaking English there for over a thousand years.
There are a lot of distinctive regional accents in the eastern half of the US, the one that has been inhabited by English speakers the longest. (e.g. a Boston accent). California was a Spanish-speaking Spanish (and later Mexican) jurisdiction when English had been spoken in Virginia for 200 years. I think this also applies to Canada. A Newfoundlander or Cape Bretoner may have a distinctive accent, but when was the last time someone said “He sounds like he’s from Calgary”?
There are fewer regional accents in the West (there are some, but they are less distinct and there are fewer of them.)
Regarding Oz, it was settled by English speakers after the North American colonies, so I would expect that the accents would be less divergent.
I suppose to an outsider the biggest difference on this island is between general Northern Irish (and the rest of Ulster) accents and those of the other three provinces. But there’s a lot of variation across all regions of this country. Accents differ audibly (to me) every 10 miles or so once you leave Dublin. Dublin has a variety of accents too. Of course telly, radio and social mobility have had a huge impact but it’s still not that uncommon for people from two disparate parts of the country to meet and have trouble communicating, at least for a while.
The SAE is recognisable as more western than other US accents but is certainly not flat unaccented to my ear. The funny thing is when I first heard William Shatner (and I know he’s Canadian) interviewed his accent was much more noticeable than his character, James T Kirk. Ditto for many other actors. Is that a real difference or is it my perception?
NZ doesn’t have distinct regional accents apart from a slight southern roll of Southlanders’ 'r’s, thought to have come from Scottish settlers.
There are more distinct, general, educated and broad Kiwi accents and what might be called a ‘bro’ accent, characteristic of some Maoris and NZ born Pacific Islanders, (but that may be too much generalising).
Consider that NZ is the youngest native English speaking nation, about 50 years younger than Australia, and Australia doesn’t really have regional accents either. There may be Australian regionalisms; different words for the same things, and an Australian would be able to think of examples that I would get confused about. There are very minor regionalisms in NZ. Bach and crib being the same thing in North or South Islands is the main one I can think of.
I can recognise “Southern”, and “New York”, but I wouldn’t be able to place (or possibly perceive unless it was pointed out to me) any others. I can’t distinguish between “American” and “Canadian” (unless it’s an American and it’s one of the two I can recognise).
I don’t think there’s an accent in the UK I view as “standard” and featureless, other than my own. But that’s only because it’s my own; I’m sure it’s a strong accent to those not from where I am.
I’ve never perceived a “featureless” American accent, because all American accents are quite thick and noticeably American (or Canadian… but I digress).
I have noticed a trend on American shows whereby I am starting to find it harder to understand people. For example, the counselor woman in Glee - I struggle to understand what she’s saying. I imagine that’s similar to the experience many Americans have watching British shows.
I can tell the difference between some American accents. Most notably,
Southern,
and what I believe is a Boston accent,
if laid on fairly thick the Jersey accent (as in mobster movies etc)
In terms of Australia itself, as has been mentioned already there’s no real accent variation. The closest thing is regional words, and some empathisers (if that’s the right term) and in a few small cases pronunciation of some words.
The one example on the pronounciation front I can think of off hand is the pronounciation of Castle. Pronounced ‘Car-sal’ as opposed to ‘Cas-el’. The claim is Adelaide being a non-convict settlement pronounce it in line with ‘proper English’ while the eastern states go the ‘lazy’ version.
In terms of the empathisers, a lot of people from North Queensland will litter their sentences, particualry at the end with an ‘eh’. (Yes , just very occasionally I catch myself doing it, but I’ve largely stopped it)
As an American living in Australia for a very long time now, I echo what others have said. There are two basic Australian accents - Steve Irwin/Bryan Brown style ‘Strine’ and what would sound to you to be an English accent, which is the more educated, refined version. (It sounded English to me for years, much to my husband’s consternation.) Listen to it long enough and you will hear that it’s a very much toned down version of the country accent.
There are mild regional variations, but those are words, not accents. My Victorian husband says castle the same way I do. Our New South Welshman friends say Caaah sell, for example. The replacing of ‘my’ with ‘me’ happens more in Strine, less in the more educated accent, more often for all if drunk (or so it seems!). But the underlying accent is pretty much the same. I can kind of hear Western Australian from time to time, they do some weird vowel thing I can’t quite type out or imitate, and the ‘eh’ ending tends to be country in general and Queenslanders as a rule. And Julia Gillard’s accent is just. fucking. bizzare.
As for me, I hear American as an ‘accent’ to my ears now, although I can quite easily pick out regional variations and most Canadians, just as I could before I moved here. It just suddenly stopped sounding neutral and started sounding like an accent, but long after the Australian speech stopped sounded accented for me, so there was a time that both sounded unaccented.
I haven’t been back to the US since 2006, so I suspect if I went back for a few weeks I’d stop hearing it as an accent, though.
(Yes , just very occasionally I catch myself doing it, but I’ve largely stopped it)