Question for plant lovers, fish lovers, and dilletante hydroponicists.

Factual Questions
1

I was in a restaurant in some podunk town called “Chicago” and there was a clear vase of water with a plant sitting in a marble “nest” thingy that had its bare roots hanging down into the water. As if this werent enough, there was a fish in the vase as well - one of those Kung Fu Fighting Fish from the Mystic Orient. I really want to make one of these. I think I know how to fill the vase with water but I was wondering what plant would be viable for such designs. After a good kneecapping the proprietor revealed that the fish was fed by removing the “nest” thingy and dropping in normal fish food. There were no nutrients added to the water for the plant’s benefit. Unfortunately the “Plant” looked more like crabgrass then a “Plant.” You can answer either of the two following questions.

  1. Completely objectively speaking, what is the prettiest plant that can grow in pure water?

  2. Are their any fish that eat Miracle Grow?

2

It is difficult to answer your question about plants, as I don’t know your tastes. A lot of house plants are actually used as aquarium plants, so I’d experiment with something you like. As far as needing miracle grow, you wouldn’t. The fish (Siamese Fighting Fish/Betta) would provide some of the nutrients by going to the bathroom. I also recently spoke to an owner of a small plant/greenhouse business, and was told when trying to “start” new plants in water, I should never add fertilizer…it burns them. One last thing, in one of my books about fish, it mentions the practice of keeping Bettas in small amounts of water as a “cruel practice”. I know they can survive in a small container (they are able to breathe from the surface), but it’s something to consider. Hope that helps.

3

Or “Rootex” for that matter… I remember looking up “indole butryic acid” years ago in my World Book Dictionary, and being amused that they pointed out that it “causes psychotic reactions in guppies.”

How exactly do you spot a psychotic guppy?

“Let me out of this freakin’ bowl! Freemasons are programming my dreams!”

4

I appreciate the fish friendly comments. Im a member of PETF myself. No, I was considering a rather large vase - bigger than an actual fish bowl. But does anyone know what kind of plants/flowers have have a viable future in this environment?

5

May I just add, unhelpfully, that “Psychotic Guppy” is an obvious candidate for the band names thread.

6

Regarding the plant - any sort of butterfly plant would be fine - I’ve used them extensively in wet/dry aquariums/terrariums with nice results. FYI, they’re vine type plants with round/flat leaf which can be either solid green or striated with white. You could achieve a pleasant effect by hanging the bowl - the vines would then drape down the sides.

Regarding the fish, in the wild, Betas actually live/breed/hang-out in mud puddles, so a reasonably large bowl will be fine. In my experience, Beta’s will actually do better in a smaller space, rather than a large tank - I don’t know if they’re agoraphobic, or what, but even those fish in a tank as small as 10g have failed to thrive in my experience.

The plant will derive enough nutrients from fish poop and unconsumed fish food.

Al.

7

Not sure if this would be a good idea, but here’s something: I took a cutting of Dieffenbachia (Dumb Cane) and stuck it in a carafe full of water. It rooted, and the roots grew long and plentiful. The thing survived on tap-water alone for at least a year (when i got lazy and let it dry out). The only problem is, the leaves kept getting smaller (maybe a good thing).

I’m not sure if the plant would be good for fish, because the plant (leaves at least) contain oxalic acid (IIRC, which is why it’s called dumbcane, because ingesting it will swell up your throat).

8

Or you could try a goldfish; they’re just little carp and can survive in filthy stagnant water for weeks eating nothing but mosquito larvae and algae. (Yes, I know fish food is cheap, but I was busy last month). As far as the plant, I saw one of those set-ups with what looked like a spathe lily or calla lily.

9

They use peace lilies in most arrangements. And please Please PLEASE make sure there is ample room and a way to get to a wide open part of the water on the top. Bettas are labyrinth fishes, so they breathe by going to the top and gulping air. Give it plenty of room for this please, or you will have an unhappy fishie.

10

Funny that. I’m going out this weekend to start putting together a terrarium. I’m going to use a turtle-tank aquarium (long, wide, not so deep) and turn it on its side (so it will be tall, wide, not so deep). I’m then going to glue a piece of glass on the front-bottom so it’ll hold about 6-8 inches of water, then put in driftwood and orchids (attached to the wood). A little bubbler in the back, maybe a fan, and a set of lights resting on top. I don’t know if I’m going to put a door on the front or not though…We’ll see. A beta and maybe a few neons and it’s done.

I didn’t think about rooty plants…but that could be cool…hhmmm…
-Tcat

11

Geez red dragon, I’m glad you gave me the warning. I think I better call that restauranteur in Chicago before that Beta ends up curled up at the top. Actually I wasnt planning on using a Beta because I don’t particularly like their vibe. Guess I was turned off by the carnival thang of putting those two bulb sized tanks together, each containing a beta, to get some excitement out of seeing them raise their fin hackles. I figured that the roots would oxygenate the water but, looking back, I do remember goldfish coming up to the top to gulp. Are there any fish that don’t require a trip to the top for a gulp of air. Are they pretty. Cuz everything must be pretty.

12

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH! NO! don’t put a goldfish in there. They are messy, messy, messy fish! They need an air pump and air stone. Then need about 10 gallons of water per fish to be healthy. They grow, they need a lot of room to grow.

I have written a bit about these things, “betta gardens” they are called, on my site. There is a link there. Bettas are much better suited and quite peaceful as long as you don’t show them another betta or a mirror. Female bettas are smaller and another option. Just remember, male or female, one betta per bowl.

Pothos, also philodendron will grow with its roots in water, and some people say it will grow completely submerged.

http://home.hiwaay.net/~keiper/goldfishpage.htm#siam

13

AFAIK, Nephythis is the only conventional houseplant that can grow underwater. Hell, I once threw a dying nephythis in a sealed, empty trash can, the can was completely sealed and dark for 3 months and when I opened it, a tall albino nephythis plant was in there.
And rooting diffenbachia in water isn’t the most efficient method. It roots better with “air rooting.”

14

The thing im talking about was like a normal houseplant, you would never know it was being hydronponically grown and had a fish in it unless the vase was clear. this wasnt a lily type plant that sat on top of the water nor was it something that was completely submerged.

15

Sorry to disagree with you, Alice, but in the wild, bettas don’t normally hang out in “mud puddles”. :wink:

http://www.aqualink.com/columns/k-betta1.html

I submit that what this is referring to is more like a small farm pond rather than a “mud puddle”. If they really did live in “mud puddles”, they would be subject to instant predation by virtually anything with enough smarts to pick up a piece of food off the buffet.

Anyway, here’s the skinny on these bettas vases that the OP is talking about. The plant used is a “spathiphyllum”, also known as a Peace Lily. The gimmick is supposed to be “Peace Lily with Fighting Fish”, get it? :rolleyes:

http://gardening.about.com/library/weekly/aa053100b.htm?once=true&
I don’t know any serious fishkeepers who would be comfortable keeping a betta in one of these, Kid. :wink: Bettas don’t really eat plant roots, and the narrow top isn’t wide enough for proper oxygen exchange at the surface, even if they can breathe air if they have to. Also, a major consideration is the fact that bettas excrete toxic ammonia through their gills, which the plant can’t utilize as fertilizer and which gradually builds up in the water, poisoning the fish. This explains why so many of those bettas in betta bowls you see at the pet store are on the bottom of the bowl, dying. It’s not that they don’t have enough oxygen–it’s that they’re being poisoned by their own ammonia. Keeping a betta in one of these bowls or vases is IMO not kind to the fish. They’re such nice little fish, I think they deserve better.

And, Kid? Fish aren’t supposed to come to the top and gulp air. If you see any kind of fish other than a betta or a gourami doing this, it is a sign that the fish is in deep distress.

Also, FTR, plant roots do not “oxygenate the water”. What oxygenates water is gas exchange at the surface. Plant roots actually require oxygen themselves.

And sure, you can go ahead and set one of these up with a goldfish in there if you want to. Heck, you could put any kind of fish in there that appeals to you–as long as you realize that it’s strictly a temporary arrangement, exactly like a flower arrangement, and with about the same lifespan. The average feeder goldfish, in a betta vase, I’d give, oh, about a week, about the same as a vase of gladiolus. And hey, it’s cheaper, too, since feeder goldfish are running about 25 to 39 cents each at Wal-Mart and glads–hey, glads are pretty expensive. [heavy sarcasm there, in case you didn’t notice]

If you really want to start keeping fish, Kid, do some reading, browse the Web, go the pet store and look at fish, and do it right. :wink:

(And I’m not even going to dignify the Jackass’s base prejudice against the noble carp with a response. :smiley: )

16

Duck Duck, I appreciate your reply. Since the OP I have been doing research and I think you’d be proud of this post I made at some home and garden forum. I offer it so that you might provide some insights into the questions posed.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/crafts/msg0810034311442.html?1

17

Water hyacinth are a nice plant. They are floating, with long, feathery trailing roots that hang into the water and gas-filled bulbs and leaves that sit on top. They are good at sucking out nutrients from the water, and are used in some forms of sewage treatment. They require good light though, and might not do so well in a vase. Parrot’s feather is another plant that looks kind of nice. Water cress would need cooler water perhaps, …look at any kind of marginal plant - there are many. I’d suggest using a pretty male guppy for the fish. Tetras are small and colorful too, but like to school and are really active swimmers.

18

Well, see, I just personally think the whole “Betta bowl/vase” thing is a stunt, a kind of parlor trick. You know what I mean? To me, it looks unnatural, the way a vase full of flowers looks a little unnatural. I mean, I like flowers in vases, but as a gardener, I still think they look a little “strange”. I’m used to seeing them with long green stems and leaves and stuff, outside, growing in a flower bed.

And I personally like to see more natural fish tank setups. Even if it’s just with plastic plants and one of those printed plastic backgrounds, still, to me that looks better than just dropping the fish into a completely artificial environment like a bowl and expecting him to be happy. To me, the point of keeping any animal in captivity is to try to reproduce its care requirements from the wild, and to keep it alive as long as possible, not to produce a cute centerpiece for the dinner table. Those bettas in betta bowls don’t live very long.

To address your question of what kind of environment is best for a betta, most of the serious fishkeepers I know recommend at least a 2 gallon tank, for just one betta, but you can get away with 1 quart. It doesn’t have to have a filter, if you can do weekly water changes. It doesn’t have to have fancy gravel on the bottom, or even live plants growing in it. What it does have to have is adequate water volume to ensure that the betta doesn’t have to go to the surface to gulp air, because that’s actually designed to be his fall-back position, not his main air supply. Also, a greater water volume will make sure that his own toxic waste products don’t build up and poison him.

Now, the thing about “narrow neck/wide neck” has to do with gas exchange at the water’s surface. Carbon dioxide molecules escape from the water into the air, and oxygen molecules go into the water from the air. This is done more efficiently the bigger the surface area you have available for it, hence the finger-wagging on the subject of narrow vases.

Really, the best home for a fish is a fish tank, not a flower vase or a soup bowl.

You wanna get serious about bettas? Take a look at some of these.

http://ibc.bettas.org/

http://www.bettasrus.com/

You’ll notice on this very good basic betta website that she has a large flower vase shown as an “acceptable container”. It’s hard to tell from the picture, but the vase actually has water only up to the shoulder, so it actually has a fairly big surface area for gas exchange (in other words, it isn’t full up to the neck, it’s only about half-full).
http://cbs.bettas.org/petbetta.html