I’m in the market for a new desktop computer. I’ve been looking at several in some stores, and I’ve started to realize that the newest generations aren’t as easily upgradable as generations past. I’ve seen some that it seems impossible to add memory or a slave harddrive, because the areas that the new hardware would go is somewhat inaccessible.
Then I started to wonder if this was by design, and that maybe computer companies don’t recommend adding/upgrading things like that. Not only because they’d prefer you buy a new computer rather than upgrade one for years, but because it could cause heat problems.
So there’s my question. If I buy a current model desktop from one of the big names (HP, Gateway, Dell, etc), and install a slave harddrive or something, how real is the possibility that the heat generated by my new hardware would be too much for the factory-installed fan?
You not only face possible heat issues, but it’s also likely the power supply won’t handle the additional power consumption well. Those mass-produced machines usually have lower-end (in terms of wattage) power supplies that are good enough for the computer as it was built, but won’t hold up if you start adding items
If there’s no bay for a second hard drive, don’t try putting one wherever it will fit. The second hard drive will probably end up blocking air flow, leading even more to overheating.
To get one of those brands of computers that has the extra drive bays, you usually have to go for one of their tower configurations, and even then, be careful to check the specs and make sure.
I haven’t really looked at the latest offerings, but as of a year or so ago, the two things it was still very easy and safe to add were more RAM and (at least) another hard drive, as long as there was still space to add either. The two big power drains inside are the CPU and video card.
The things that I often saw have problems in “name-brand/off-the-shelf” computers were slot components–things added to PCI slots. Things like video-input cards, special audio cards and SCSI-type disk-drive cards.
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Careful with that generalization. A modern IDE hard drive can draw 11.5W of power and put out quite a bit of heat. If you believe the laws of thermodynamics, all of the power drawn as electricity must eventually be converted to heat. A CPU might draw significantly more than that (I think modern AMD processors draw 35-45W) and crank out a proportional heat load.
Limitations of a stock case aside, you can nearly always upgrade a piece of modern computer hardware. Unlike in the bad old days of Compaq proprietary connectors, most PCs now conform to a set of interface standards. RAM is mostly 168-pin; CPUs stay the same shape and size for several generations (e.g. Athlon Socket A); hard drives have been IDE for at least ten years and are just now changing; graphics cards are AGP or infrequently, PCI; motherboards are ATX or microATX form factor; power supplies are all ATX standardized; keyboards and mice are PS2 and USB.
If you buy a stock Dell today, you will probably incur some extra cost upgrading it, but you will be able to add and subtract hardware. You might have to buy a new case ($50 or less) and a new power supply ($50 or less) before springing for whatever additional parts you need.
I would argue that new PCs are easier to upgrade than older ones. Many of the vendors have given up on proprietary power supply pin-outs and front panel pinouts in favor of cheap, standard hardware.
Some things to consider:
Power Supplies: Vendors tend to have 200W or 250W max power supplies in their PCs which isn’t a lot of power. However Dell and HP tend to use high quality power supplies that underrate their maximum power usage.
Cases: Vendors tend to have nice cases, however a large number of vendor PCs use Micro-ATX form factor chassis (these often have onboard everything including video, and 3 or less PCI slots, and possibly an AGP slot. If you want to upgrade the motherboard and put it in the same case, you will need to buy another motherboard of the same form factor.
Video: Vendor PCs generally have video card solutions that are good for business users and poor for any serious gaming. Make sure your PC has an AGP slot or PCI-Express slot.
Vendor PCs are generally setup for passive cooling so that they are quiet, and if you add a lot of parts they can get hot. You might need to add additional fans if there is the room.
I’m been building PCs for people as of late, but I bought a cheap HP AMD 2000+ 256MB PC2100 DDR RAM, 40GB 5400 RPM hard drive, Asus KT400 VIA motherboard with onboard sound and video, CD-ROM drive and it is now a HP AMD 2000+ 512MB PC2100 DDR RAM, 160GB 8MB 7200 RPM hard drive, Asus KT400 VIA motherboard, ATI Radeon 9600 AGP Video Card, 16X DVD-ROM drive, and my old 4X HP CD-RW burner and it runs great with no heat issues or power issues. I think it has a 250W max power supply.
Have you considered a Mac? It’s generally agreed that a Mac goes obsolete much less quickly, meaning you won’t have to upgrade components as often, and you won’t have to upgrade the entire CPU as often.
Okay, I’m a zeolot in your mind and you don’t want to hear it. So, since convenience and elegance mean nothing to you, go the other extreme: build your own PC box. Get the size power supply YOU want. Get the motherboard YOU want. Get the cool case YOU want. Get the ANYTHING that YOU want. You’ll probably get an equivilent system for a better price than you’d pay for a system, or you’d build a better system for the same price you’d pay for a complete system.
No, I’m not being faceitious. If you can install a hard drive and memory, you can probably build your computer, too. If you’re happy with your current version of Windows, install it on the new machine and erase the old machine. Why pay another $300 for Windows XP Pro?
Yes, aside from my precious Macs, I have my home-made Windows machine, too, and it’s great for Freecell.
I really don’t need much. I don’t do hardcore gaming on my computer, so the video card hasn’t really meant that much to me. I do some minor video editing, but mostly I use the computer for Internet access and word processing. My thoughts on upgrading come from the fact that I’ve had basically the same computer for just over five years. If I could get a machine now that will last that long with only some occasional upgrading, that’d be ideal. Like I said, my biggest worries are about excessive heat (and now that you mention it, power supply) if I add a slave harddrive. It sounds like if that’s all I’m doing, it shouldn’t be a problem. But I just wanted to get some opinions from some Dopers with more experience with recent generations of computers.
And, Balthisar, I haven’t ruled out going with a Mac or building my own machine. I had some bad experiences with Macs in grad school (three years ago), but I’m willing to give them another look now. And I think I could probably put my own computer together, as I have enough of a base of knowledge of hardware to do that. I just kind of worry that something would go wrong that I can’t fix, and then I’d be in big trouble and significantly poorer.
Go check out NewEgg and Price Watch. Just for fun – as a gedankenexperiment – price out the cost of buying, brand new, the following combinations of parts.
Brand New System
New everything:
ATX case & 350W power supply
New motherboard & CPU
512MB of RAM
Graphics card with 64MB of RAM
Any PCI devices not built onto your motherboard already
USB mouse & keyboard
New monitor
New hard drive (120GB)
New CD/R (or DVD/R) drive
Chop-Shop Replacement
Replace the outdated parts in your old case:
350W power suuply
new motherboard and CPU
512MB of RAM
graphics card with 64MB of RAM
Any PCI devices not on your motherboard or in your existing system
New hard drive
Dude, you’re getting a DELL
Just buy a machine stock:
that simple
If you don’t require anything special, I would probably recommend a pre-made system. Most modern systems come with plenty of HD space and 512 megs of RAM (the minimal needed with Windows XP). If you get a mid-range Dell, you should be ok.
It’s unlikely you’d need more than 80~120 gigs of HD space. If you’re doing anything like word processing and a few low-end games and maybe a few (thousand) mp3s, 80~120 gigs is more than enough. 512 megs of RAM is plenty and upgrading to 1 gig shouldn’t pose a problem (try to get a listing of what RAM your computer comes with and match it when upgrading: DDR 168 pin PC2700, 3300 etc).
For any serious computer person (gaming/rendering/DVD ripping/encoding) you wouldn’t even consider a pre-made system But for a person on a buget (or someone who doesn’t need a super-high end system) Dell makes decent PCs and it’s handy that Windows XP comes pre-loaded (something to consider if you pick up a self built system, you have to shell out for Win XP).
I have to agree with Jurph:
If you decide to buy a whole system from a vendor,
Go with an AMD 2500+ or P4 2.4 or Higher System with 512MB RAM, 80GB or higher hard drive, DVD/CDRW Combo drive, onboard sound, onboard video, onboard network connection, PCI modem (if required) make sure it has an AGP or PCI Express slot on the motherboard for graphics card upgrades.
If you decide to build it yourself here are some tips, NewEgg.com is a great site with low prices and a large variety of components.
If I was building a new machine with your requirements I would get: AMD 64 2800+ Processor $142 512MB Mushkin RAM $76 Soltek NForce3 MB $104 NEC 3500A DVD Burner $80 Samsung DVD/CD-RW Combo Drive $42 Antec Solution Series SLK3700 Case $75 Geforce 5500 AGP Video Card $69 Maxtor 160GB 7200 IDE Hard Drive $80
Total $668
I can also recommend you something cheaper, but this machine has nice features and doesn’t skimp on performance.
You can reuse your monitor, keyboard, mouse, and speakers if you wish. If you have an OS you can reuse that. If you are a student, pick up an academic version of Windows XP Pro from school (cheaper), or order it through Newegg. If you don’t qualify for that, get the OEM version of Windows XP Pro through Newegg for around $140.
Good luck!
The regular mid-sized Compaqs and HP ATX chassis PCs sold in Circuit City and elsewhere are very upgradable. I have a Presario 6000 1.6 Ghz Athlon.
I have onboard
768 megs RAM (256 + 512)
three 160 gig and 1 250 gig IDE harddrives (4 total 2 stacked iwith spacers n the bottom with accessory fan blowing on them for cooling)
a DVD reader,
a DVD burner
an Radeon 7500 AGP video card with it’s own fan,
a 4 port USB2 card,
a Promise IDE controller card
and ton of stuff hung off the ports
It runs without a burp power supply wise. Getting into and out the chassis for adding RAM is a minor PITA, and you do have to remove the PS to get at some of the interior stuff on the back MB, but the necessity for that is very rare.
And may I add, when you’re pricing the different options don’t forget the If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it
option. A non-broken five year old computer ought to do web browsing and word processing perfectly well, and should be able to do reasonable still picture editing (cropping your digital pictures, etc.).
General Motors tells you that you need a new car every two years, and Intel tells you that you need a new computer every 14 months, but you don’t have to believe the hype from either of them.
Too true. I’ve got three machines at home between five and four years old each. I still run some cool games, have no problem surfing the web (even with the 450 on a cable modem) and even run Photoshop 7.0 on the 600 machine with no probs. The 800 has a DVD rom and a DVD burner on it and so far hasn’t coughed up a lung. It also has a 64 meg video card, a 1394 card, two harddrives and all manner of extra things hanging off the USB ports including two printers one scanner and a card reader. It also has 512 megs of ram.
I keep the machines clean (dirt and netwise), updated and running smoothly.
I may pick up a new machine next year sometime.
But for a person on a buget (or someone who doesn’t need a super-high end system) Dell makes decent PCs and it’s handy that Windows XP comes pre-loaded (something to consider if you pick up a self built system, you have to shell out for Win XP).