Question re Democrats who are down on Biden

This was in the NYTimes today, but this stuff can be found anywhere:


The party’s problems run deep, as Mr. Biden’s lead pollster has privately warned the White House for months. Independent voters backed Mr. Biden in 2020, but his approval rating with independents now hovers in the 30s. He has underperformed with voters of color in some surveys. Warning signs have emerged among suburban voters. And Mr. Biden’s approval rating has deteriorated with young people even though he won them overwhelmingly in 2020.

I expect ignorant Republican voters to be uninformed because of their basic mindset and where they get their news. Not inquiring about them.

I understand that everyone is disappointed that Joe Biden has not solved the nation’s problems (or changed water into wine, walked on water, or raised the dead). But why do voters who call themselves Democrats not place blame on Republican (McConnell) and Democratic (Manchin/Sinema) obstructionism? Why do they see it as totally Biden’s fault when Congress doesn’t pass the programs Democratic voters want? Do they understand that the President can’t do this stuff all by himself? Is it just human nature to blame Daddy/The Boss/The Man when stuff doesn’t work?

I know there are other issues, like the one addressed in the cited article, namely, Democratic leadership can’t (1) get their message together, and (2) get it out to the public. That’s been a problem all along.

But I’m asking about Democratic voters and their apparent tunnel vision about Biden and their amnesia about the trump years. What IS their problem??

They don’t truely know how politics is supposed to work. Compromise is a forgotten and misunderstood concept. The climate today defines compromising as weakness. Biden’s trying to steer a ship back on course in the middle of a minefield.

I would say it is a combination of the perennial problem on the Democratic side of low engagement, coupled with the prevalence of “low information” Democratic voters. Those of us who are more engaged and informed have a hard time understanding those who aren’t, yah? “DON"T THEY KNOW WHAT IS AT STAKE!!!”

I would also give credit to the relentless Right-wing message machine. Even for someone who is not as engaged and informed, some of the negative messaging seeps through as the Overton Window becomes a debate on “Are the Democrats and Biden totally insane, or just stupid? Let’s debate!”

And the non-existent Democratic message machine.

WI the Dems issued cogent and on-point statements on a regular basis, but there was no media outlet to report them?

I would blame Jen Psaki, the worst press secretary ever. She seems unable to get a coherent message across. Also things like inflation and gas prices being Putin’s fault despite the inflation and rise in gas prices starting before his invasion of Ukraine and you have to wonder if the Biden administration knows what’s going on. I talk to Mrs Cad (a Biden supporter) about this and my view is even if you agree with something Biden does, the optics are always terrible.

Let’s face reality, Biden was a compromise candidate and not one that inspired a lot of enthusiasm. He mostly won on not being Trump and being seen as a moderate by everyone except the Trump supporters. They weren’t voting for Biden anyway.

It would probably be better if Biden didn’t seek another term but that is a big ask. I truly hope the candidates in the future are actually below retirement age.

How can a Gen Z or Millennial relate to Biden at all? I really don’t think it is surprising that his popularity among younger voters is low. The other side of this is no Republican has high marks with them either. So come 2024, an effort has to be made to get them to come out and vote. They will probably vote for whoever is the Dem candidate.

I think there’s a fundamental difference between Republican and Democratic voters. Democratic voters expect their elected officials to get things done. Sometimes these things are impossible for a president to get done given the makeup of Congress, but the president gets the blame even from his own voters for not succeeding. Republican voters don’t care if their elected officials get nothing done, in fact they prefer it that way. All they ask of their candidates is that they hate the same people that they do.

I mean, this is clearly false. At least she’s not lying all the time.

I agree. IMHO some people tend to think as politics as a spots match. They think that if Our Team loses to Their Team, maybe it’s because the players on Our Side made mistakes, had a flawed game plan, were poorly coached, etc., and so the solution is to not vote for those same players and coaches. I think this type of thinking is obviously flawed. Elections aren’t like a sports match. They’re more like a battle between firefighters and a wildfire. Let’s say the wildfire is spreading and getting close to your house while the firefighters are engaged on a different front. That doesn’t mean voting to cut back on the number of firefighters is a good idea. Unfortunately some Democratic voters don’t get this. Yes, maybe some of the firefighters could be better at their jobs. That doesn’t mean you should change your support and vote for the person lighting matches and playing with fire. It means you help the firefighters get better to the extent that you’re able to contribute to the cause.

Agree 100%.

IMHO there is an existential issue here as well. Right now it would be better to have Democrats in power with a 60% solution than it would to have GOP in power, with Democrats bickering over how to get, and which Democrat has, the 90% solution. I don’t think enough Democrats understand this.

Very true. But WHY don’t they understand it?

There’s this:

Politics has been defined as “the art of the possible.” Democrats are not grasping this.

I wonder if dems, by nature, are more idealistic to the extent that the AOCs and her ilk (I don’t mean that negatively btw) are too focused on their super-liberal agenda that they won’t collaborate with other dems who are too focused on their other-liberal agendas.

There were Republicans that didn’t toe the line of the Republican Bosses, they’ve been forced out in primary challenges.

The Democrats typically don’t eat their own at this point. Though it happened in the past.

The real heart of the problem is the outsized influence the old Dixiecrats have had in either party. They use to influence the Dems too much and post Reagan, year by year, seized control of the Republican party and expanded their reach at the same time.

Except that’s demonstrably false. The “too liberal” Democrats bent over backwards trying to appease the “moderates” in order to pass the Build Back Better bills, and then the moderates screwed them anyways. AOC is not the problem here. She would have voted for any version of the bill that was offered, because anything is better than nothing.

But “Nothing” was all Manchin and Sinema were willing to offer.

Quick Reminder, don’t make this thread about AOC or Manchin, it should be about Biden. If you want an AOC vs Manchin thread, please start a new one.

I’m not specifically saying that she is the problem and I completely agree about Manchin and Sinema (in fact they had completely slipped my mind when I was writing my post). Remember, I said “super” liberal, not “too” liberal and I wasn’t accusing anyone of being wrong. In fact, your Manchin and Sinema point illustrates exactly what I was referring to - and that was that maybe dems are too busy infighting to recognize the real issue.

The job of the press secretary is to get the President’s message across in an clear professional manner. Psaki has failed at that.

Just because someone is a Democrat doesn’t mean they’re not stupid.