Question regarding lockpicks and children

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@silenus

Don’t neglect “How to pick handcuffs” in their lessons.

After that, teach them how to pick handcuffs with their teeth.

Lockpicks, like silencers on firearms, have obtained a mystique among the general populace solely due to their portrayal in fiction. In reality, virtually no lock will stop a determined thief; locks are design to “keep [mostly] honest people honest.” Personally, I think that the ability to bypass and repair locks is a useful one for any handy person. However, if you are going to pursue this plan, as with firearms, operating motor vehicles, consumption of alcohol, or any other regulated activity with potentially severe consequences you need to make the legal and liability implications very clear to your children.

Stranger

[Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension]

@Stranger_On_A_Train

Personally, I think that the ability to bypass and repair locks is a useful one for any handy person. However, if you are going to pursue this plan, as with firearms, operating motor vehicles, consumption of alcohol, or any other regulated activity with potentially severe consequences you need to make the legal and liability implications very clear to your children.

Stranger

Yup. I concur completely, we are absolutely on the same wavelength. This is the plan. As with firearm safety, one of the best ways to explain these related concepts is by teaching the sport. I figure, a young adult who knows how to pick a lock, and has had long discussions regarding the legalities of picking locks, is going to be more cognizant of these issues than a random kid on the street who sees an unlocked storage unit or garage door.

I’m not training hooligans or thieves, I’m training [del]John Connor[/del] spies.

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension

I’m not training hooligans or thieves, I’m training [del]John Connor[/del] spies.

This is what my grandfather did for me, and look at I turned out.

On second thought, maybe that isn’t your best example. Anyway, good luck.

Stranger

[Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension]

@Stranger_On_A_Train

This is what my grandfather did for me, and look at I turned out.

Rather well, from what I can tell.

[Spoons]

@Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension

Exactly- Attacklad is going to be shocked when he learns how to waltz for just this reason

Make sure he knows just how important it is to know such things. It sounds like you will, but I have to repeat it.

Some time ago, my wife and I took a little holiday. We booked a suite at a fancy hotel in a nearby city. One of the things we planned to do while we were there was to have dinner in the hotel’s dining room–one of the best in the city, IME. We made reservations in the dining room, and at the appointed time, went down to eat. I was in a suit and tie, my wife looked beautiful (well, no surprise there) in a skirt-and-top-and-jacket combo.

As we crossed the hotel lobby and approached the dining room, a young couple got in front of us. He was in jeans and a T-shirt advertising the recent tour of a popular rock band, she was in jeans and a sweater. He asked for a table–apparently, he had made no reservation, but the restaurant could accommodate them–and they were taken to a table. Next was us. My reservation was recognized by the Maitre D’, I was called by name (“Mr. Spoons, we’ve been looking forward to meeting you, we have a nice table we’ve prepared for you…”), and we headed for our table. “Good evening, Mr. Spoons,” said the waiter, and we were off into a wonderful dining experience.

I could see the young couple from where we were sitting. They lasted about twenty minutes before getting up and leaving. Not that the restaurant did anything I could see to discourage them–they ordered drinks and were reading the menu–but maybe they just felt out of their depth. They did not seem prepared for this environment. I’d guess that nobody had told them what fine dining was all about; they were likely fish out of water.

It sounds to me, Attack, like you want to prepare your children for such environments. Certainly, James Bond might well have been at the next table (heck, we ordered martinis as cocktails). To this end, learning piano, and waltzing, and knowing about fine foods and wines (within reason, depending on age), and other “arty” pursuits are a part of the education of the young spy, IMHO.

[Dallas_Jones]

Common house door knob locks are operated by a number of pins. These pins can be replaced to match the key set up. This is how a locksmith can make several door locks work with a common key, even when they were bought with different keys.

Go to the hardware store and by a door knob and take it apart with the kids. Here is a description of how to re-key the common Schlage brand locks.

Entry Door Knobs, Door Locks & Hardware for Doors | Schlage

[Magiver]

@Dangerosa

Teach the paperclip method on simple locks and call it done. It just takes a paperclip and a simple door lock - and its legal to own a paperclip, even in Saskatoon. (At least, I’m assuming it is).

Second. You know they’re going to do something evil like switch the locks on kids bikes at school. Masterlock thought adding a 2nd clip to their locks was going to work.

[trupa]

@Spoons

It sounds to me, Attack, like you want to prepare your children for such environments. Certainly, James Bond might well have been at the next table (heck, we ordered martinis as cocktails). To this end, learning piano, and waltzing, and knowing about fine foods and wines (within reason, depending on age), and other “arty” pursuits are a part of the education of the young spy, IMHO.

**Spoons **is once again dead on here. After all, spies often use a diplomatic post as their cover, and diplomats are asked to attend some very fancy shindigs. Knowing how to dress appropriately, having the right table manners, and knowing one’s way around the wine list are crucial to not blowing your cover.

This reminds me of an interesting bit from Trudeau’s biography. When he was about 12 years old, his father brought him along on a summer-long driving trip through Europe. Now, this was before the day of Expedia and advanced booking. When they arrived in a little town where they wanted to spend the night or longer, the father would send the 12yr old P.E. Trudeau alone into a promising hotel with the mission to negotiate an acceptable rate and book the appropriate rooms. Imagine doing that nowadays! Still, it’s a good idea to have kids practise dealing with service people, from ordering in a restaurant to booking their own appointments. I know so many over 40 adults in my extended family who get flustered dealing with check-in agents at their airport, let alone customs & security, or even just talking with the bank or insurance company on the phone.

In the exact mirror situation of the young couple **Spoons *mentions, my wife and I have once or twice found ourselves in a restaurant situation where we were inadvertently vastly under-dressed (usually as a result of poor communications or incorrect assumptions). Having sufficient poise and aplomb, and knowing how to behave yielded us just as attentive and warm service as if we were dressed to the nines.

*as in: “…ehh, how dressy can a place that calls itself a *Chophouse *be. Must be a cookie cutter American casual franchise chain…:o”

[SiXSwordS]

I was going to try to win an internet by posting: Baccarat!

Then I thought, with the tenor of the thread, you probably should teach them Poker or something like it. And have them read Emotions Revealed… to learn how to bluff and avoid being bluffed. (…or read it to them at bedtime.)

That might seem a little complicated for youngúns, but reading faces comes naturally to children and they have been doing it since they were babies. (If nothing else, check out that link for the pic!)

Texas holdém is not really that difficult. Skip the blinds and all in issues and just use normal betting-- Halloween and Easter are good times to take advantage of the over abundance of candy.

[Heckity]

They did not seem prepared for this environment. I’d guess that nobody had told them what fine dining was all about; they were likely fish out of water.

Precisely! I taught my children how to set a table and which fork is for what. When they complained, I pointed out that good manners can be abandoned if they choose, but not knowing how to behave in every situation is embarrassing and speaks to upbringing.

Dress and behaviour have become very casual. Jeans at the symphony, for heaven’s sake - but being comfortable in every setting is mandatory for spies and young men who hope to impress young ladies.

Attack from the 3rd dimension, my sons learned about firearms through Boy Scouts, believe it or not. They took advantage of nearby rifle range and taught safety and appropriate use - I’m in Ontario.

[Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension]

@SiXSwordS

Then I thought, with the tenor of the thread, you probably should teach them Poker or something like it.

They already know how to play chess, go and poker, although we’re going through a bit of a lull. Attacklass is ruthless at chess, and Attacklad is surprisingly good at poker, taking after his grandfather*. We usually play 5 card draw, as it’s fast and uncomplicated, and teaches the basis for other poker variants. Thanks for reminding me, I’ll get out the cards this weekend.
*when we’d have poker night we’d often put something iron near him to try to defeat his magical powers - didn’t work.

[SiXSwordS]

@Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension

We usually play 5 card draw, as it’s fast and uncomplicated, and teaches the basis for other poker variants.

I’m not a poker player, but five card draw can be played on a hand held, $3.00 machine.
Hold’em, and other variants emphasize bluffing and reading people, which is the important part for any self-respecting spy.

*when we’d have poker night we’d often put something iron near him to try to defeat his magical powers - didn’t work.

Have you tried booze? Might as well start working on the tolerance level now.

It might seem a little old fashioned, but it’s never too early to start developing one’s tolerance for Iocaine powder too.

[trupa]

@Heckity

Attack from the 3rd dimension, my sons learned about firearms through Boy Scouts, believe it or not. They took advantage of nearby rifle range and taught safety and appropriate use - I’m in Ontario.

Good grief! What decade was this in?Can’t imagine it to have been the last two or three…

[BobArrgh]

I love what you are doing. I wish I had done this with our girls. Here are a few things that you might teach them.

1. Writing notes without looking. Put a small pad of paper in your pocket and use a short, stubby pencil to try to jot down notes. Attacklass might be able to do it by faking rummaging through her purse.

2. Morse code. Not really useful anymore, but still pretty cool, and it absolutely used to be required knowledge for spies. There is currently a commercial playing here in Kansas City where they are spelling “S-O-S” in Morse code, and they show the" … — …" on the screen. However, I think they edited the sound a little bit, because there is no pause between the last dot and the first dash. Thus, they are actually transmitting “…- – …” (V-N-S) rather than “S-O-S”. Quite geeky.

If you do get to do anything with Morse code, one cool thing to do is to record it, speed it up on playback, re-record it, etc. Thus, you end up with a microblip of a transmission that, when played back at slower speeds, can be deciphered.

3. Regarding lockpicks, I learned the “bent paperclip and screwdriver” technique at an early age. Came in quite handy one day at my computer programming job. Our company had moved into a new building, and there had been a communication breakdown regarding the desk tops and file cabinet drawers. When we first moved in, the desk tops were 32 inches deep and the drawer cabinets were 36 inches, so you could see into the tops of the drawers. Of course, the locks didn’t work.

They replaced the desk tops one night, threw the keys into the drawer, and left the drawers partly opened.

When we came in the next morning, about half of our company simply closed the drawers, locking the keys inside. Unfortunately, the secretary with a copy of all the keys did the same thing.

We got most of the drawers open with duplicate keys that had not been locked inside, but I ended up opening about 12 desks for people using a paperclip and screwdriver. I can get into a typical desk lock in under 20 seconds.

[Tom_Tildrum]

@Stranger_On_A_Train

Lockpicks, like silencers on firearms, have obtained a mystique among the general populace solely due to their portrayal in fiction. In reality, virtually no lock will stop a determined thief; locks are design to “keep [mostly] honest people honest.” Personally, I think that the ability to bypass and repair locks is a useful one for any handy person…

Funny story, mostly off-topic: We recently had some renovations done to our home, major enought that the contractor set up a portable toilet in our front yard. We asked him why they kept a padlock on the door, and he explained that they’ve found that if they leave the toilet unlocked, the mailman will use it.

I never considered the possibility of a lockpicking mailman, though.

[Spoons]

@trupa

Good grief! What decade was this in?Can’t imagine it to have been the last two or three…

Not sure if this answers your question, but when I was of Scouting age (60s-70s), all the Scouts looked forward to their annual campout, because they usually got to go to a rifle range and try shooting. Sadly, I can’t imagine it happening now.

Just as an aside, the Toronto high school I attended had had a rifle range at one point, but it was closed and unused when I went there. Well, unused as a rifle range; I understand it had become a storeroom.

[JFLuvly]

Attack,

How old are your kids? I like doing the same with mine, but I had a hard time trying to keep a six and eight year olds attention while trying to explain the principles of lock picking. That being said, thanks for the reminder, I can now add another rainy day adventure now that they are a little older.
Last night we were out in the backyard for about an hour with the pellet guns, shooting targets. I think it’s a great way to start.

[Heckity]

@trupa

Good grief! What decade was this in?Can’t imagine it to have been the last two or three…

It was within this last decade actually. My younger son would have been about 12 when he went - and he’ll be 21 next week. It was at a range north of Newmarket, Ontario. Many parents found the whole idea, well, unconscionable - but my sons were interested and I’d rather have had them learn from experts than in some less structured way.

[Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension]

@SiXSwordS

Have you tried booze? Might as well start working on the tolerance level now.

It might seem a little old fashioned, but it’s never too early to start developing one’s tolerance for Iocaine powder too.

I’m gonna hold off on the more [del] self-destructive and misogynistic [/del]..um.. grown-up aspects of James Bond for now, and stick with the more child friendly skills.

[Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension]

@JFLuvly

Attack,

How old are your kids? I like doing the same with mine, but I had a hard time trying to keep a six and eight year olds attention while trying to explain the principles of lock picking. That being said, thanks for the reminder, I can now add another rainy day adventure now that they are a little older.
Last night we were out in the backyard for about an hour with the pellet guns, shooting targets. I think it’s a great way to start.

**
Attacklad** is 9, and Attacklass is 12. I suspect the easiest way to get them into the lockpicking is to be seen trying to do it myself, and “let them try it” when their curiosity has been piqued. I’ll let you know how it works.