Hi
I am not a baseball fan. I don’t watch it. But am interested in the rules.
What exactly is the issue involved in sign stealing in baseball?
I understand that it involves stealing signs (signals) between the catcher and pitcher or to relay that information to batters or dugout personnel. What is wrong with the practice? How do these signs/signals help opposing teams exactly?
Perhaps someone can recommend a very good comprehensive and easy top follow baseball rule book or video.
I look forward to your feedback.
It helps the batter to know what pitch is coming
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There is nothing wrong with the practice if done on the field with eyeballs. The rule that is allegedly being broken is that teams are using electronic devices and cameras to steal signs from off the field of play.
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There are two common sets of signs in baseball. One are the signs relayed from coaches and managers in the dugout to players on the field to execute specific plays, like stealing bases or bunting or whatever. That’s not what this current controversy is about.
The current issue is about the other sets of signs; the signs given by the catcher to the pitcher telling him what pitch to throw. They are usually conveyed by the catcher holding fingers down between his legs. (The catcher MUST know what pitch is coming or he’ll have difficultly catching it, and it’s usually his job to decide how to approach the batter - what pitches to throw.) It is alleged the Houston Astros were using a center field camera to steal these signs and then send that information to confederates behind the Houston dugout, who used sounds to convey information to the batters. Of course, different teams and catchers use different sequences of signs, so it might have required a little decoding.
The importance of knowing what pitch is coming cannot be overstated. If a major league batter KNEW for sure what pitch was coming every time he’d go from being an average major leaguer to the greatest hitter in baseball. That the Astros did not all start hitting just like Babe Ruth suggests their system didn’t always work, but after all, ever trying to cheat is still cheating.
For illustration of this, I refer the reader to the documentary Bull Durham, particularly the scene that accompanies the following dialogue:
Nuke God, that sucker teed off on that like he knew I was gonna throw a fastball!
Crash He did know.
Nuke How?
Crash I told him.
So there is a specific rule about off-field sign stealing, or using a camera, or something like that?
That suggests that somebody in the past already tried it, and it was outlawed. What’s the history?
That’s what I was wondering: Can someone quote the specific rule that was broken?
Yes, many teams have done this since the early days of baseball. The 1951 Giants, for example, admitted to doing so on the biggest stage. It’s been a constant problem in baseball, and modern electronics make it even harder to detect. The biggest problem has been signaling the batter in time, since the signs are given only 3-5 seconds before the pitch.
There are no electronics allowed in the dugout for this reason. The Red Sox got in trouble a few years ago because of the manager wearing an Apple Watch, which theoretically could be receiving signals from someone.
There’s nothing against the rules or unethical about a runner on 2nd trying to steal signs from the catcher. That’s why batteries change their signs with runners on base. It’s accepted and normal, but not very effective because the countermeasures essentially make it useless. But with an outfield camera/scope and some way to signal a batter it changes the whole nature of the game. And that’s why it’s not allowed.
[Moderating]
Moving to the Game Room.
I’m not sure where these are in the rule book, I couldn’t find reference to them specifically. It was 1961 when MLB prohibited the use of “mechanical devices” to steal signs, this new memorandum expands on that.
That was in the olden days of Yogi Berra and such. For some time the catcher has usually looked over to the dugout to get a sign for the next pitch and then relays that to the pitcher. The extra time for the initial sign to be decided on and sent contributes to the longer game time.
Related: There’s a video on youtube by Mark Rober where he and another person write some code, collect some data and have found away to decode the signs with very little input (ie, entering the signs and the pitches thrown for the first inning). For the rest of the game, they can fairly reliably use it to predict the rest of the pitches.
It’s not really that difficult even without code. But it’s also less useful these days.
Teams, especially in the playoffs, will often switch up signs between innings or even between batters. You can use the number of current outs or the inning number or some other system to slightly modify the basis set of signs so they are not immediately decodable but still simple enough to use.
I believe for the most part catchers still call the bulk of the game. The manager may send in a specific call for a pitch out or intentional walk, but they don’t call regular pitches. All that prep goes in before the game and the catchers are expected to know the analytics, but then go by their knowledge and what they see in front of them.
AFAIK, individual pitches do not come in from the dugout. If they did, a pitcher would never wave off a particular sign.
Can you provide any citation for this? I don’t believe any of this is true (that the majority of pitch calls originate from the dugout or that it is the cause of longer game times).
The best cite I found is here:
Summary: In major league baseball, catchers generally call the pitches. In college baseball, for some reason, the bench calls the pitches, and this makes the game longer.
There are a number of pitchers who insist on always being caught by the same catcher, which one would not expect if most calls were being made from the dugout.
You can take out the word “alleged.” The Astros definitely stole signs and they definitely used a camera. You can see the monitor and trash can set up in many pictures. Here is a video of a White Sox pitcher figuring out the whole thing.
It’s bad. The Astros may not have turned into Babe Ruth, but their offense improved TREMENDOUSLY from 2016 to 2017. For example, in 2016 they had 1452 Ks. In 2017 that went down to 1087. That is an absurd improvement for what is basically the same core roster.
What I don’t get is how did they not expect to eventually get ratted out as players changed teams? If I’m a former Astros player about to play them, of course I’m gonna give my team a heads up.
That is exactly what happened. Mike Fiers told his teammates in Detroit and then in Oakland. And he may very well be the guy that told reporters and/or MLB. That’s not confirmed. But yeah, this was definitely going to get out. And honestly, if a White Sox reliever figured it out in a half inning with the loud banging, it’s very possible that umpires and everyone else on the field figured it out and reported something, too. Honestly, the trash can banging method was just real dumb.
There are a few things coming together for why it’s you wouldn’t necessarily expect it to have blown up sooner.
One is there is a culture of keeping some things within the clubhouse (or at least within the league).
Another is that pretty much all teams at least suspect some level of sign stealing (some within the rules, some without) is happening and some of those teams also engage in it themselves. In 2017 there were several teams suspected of violating sign stealing rules but, with the exception of the the Red Sox and now the Astros, no direct evidence of it. It’s not an accident that signs are changed much more frequently now that technology has advanced.
Doesn’t excuse in the slightest what the Astros did, but it does help explain why it didn’t get out sooner or why it’s seems to be blowing up bigger among fans than it is for people within the league.