Question regarding the proper use of the relative pronoun "whom"

Hi

The following use of the word "whom’ seems odd to me. I’d like to know if it’s correct.

I look forward to your feedback.

Whom else does the industry know about and protect? It’s hard to recall a time when the cultural landscape has shifted so dramatically. More than ever, the general public is inclined to believe self-reporting victims. More than ever, we are inclined to demand that the accused speak, that guilt be met with real consequence.

“The industry” is the subject. “Whom else” is the direct object. Whom is the objective case.

Who gave you the money? Davemich gave me the money.
Whom did you give the money to? I gave the money to Davemich.

Who knows about Harvey Weinstein sexually harassing women? The industry knows about Harvey Weinstein sexually harassing women.

Whom does the industry know sexually harrassed women? The industry knows Harvey Weinstein sexually harassed women.

An easy rule of thumb is – reword the sentence to replace “whom” with either “he” or “him”. If “he” works, then the word should be “who”. If “him” works, then the word should be “whom”.

In your example, “Whom else does the industry know about and protect?” would become “The industry knows about and protects him.” So “whom” is correct.

Of course this is all theoretical, since correct use of whom is almost archaic in modern English. Hypercorrecting “who” to “whom” would be an error, but using “who” where “whom” is correct would be acceptable in all but the most formal contexts.

Here’s another test for the correct use of “whom”. If an answer to the “whom” question is “him, her, them”, then “whom” is used correctly. Since answers to “Whom else does the industry know about and protect?” are “It knows about him” or “it protects them”, then “whom” is being used correctly.

It probably seems strange because we’re not used to seeing “whom” (or “him” or “her”) at the beginning of a sentence. Most people would probably say “who”. But it’s a question, and the word order is different from what it would be if it were a statement, or even a differently worded question:

The industry knows and protects whom?

It’s difficult to substitute “him” into the sentence, as written. That’s the simplest “who vs whom” test. Perhaps we could imagine a similar question: “Him, the industry knows about and protects?”

Now, I need to get back to For Whom the Bell Tolls.

Exactly - “whom” is the object form of the word, “who” is the subject.

Remember that the object can be object of the verb, or object of the preposition. And in many cases in English, the indirect object is actually expressed as the object of a preposition. Sometimes not.

“He gave him a gift.”
“Whom did he give a gift [to]?” The sentence sound perhaps a bit awkward without “to” but is grammatically correct.
“He gave to him a gift” sounds archaic and literary, but is correct. Typically we would say “He gave a gift to him.” But, this put the emphasis on “to him” while “He gave him a gift” is less emphatic of the “him”. English is full of nuances.

“For the benefit of whom is this concert given?”
“Whom am I aiming at?”
Whom shall I tell that the bell is ringing?"

Rule of thumb: If the answer is “him”, the question is “Whom?” In the OP, the industry knows about him.

A point in many of the above heuristics, not quite explicitly mentioned, is that either “Who” or “Whom” are interrogative pronouns, that are used to ask questions. And in English grammar, those would typically go at the beginning of the sentence or clause. So the kinds of sentences like that are always questions.

So the heuristic is to compose an answer to the question, using “he” or “him” as needed. This may also entail rearranging the words, either putting “He” at the beginning of the sentence or “him” at the end. But it makes clear if that is the subject or an object.

“Who” (and maybe “whom”) can also be used as relative pronouns to introduce a clause. I haven’t thought much about that usage, but my first guess would be it must work about the same way.

Thank you all. Very helpful

Actually, it looks to me that “industry” is the subject, and “does know” is the verb, but “whom” is actually the object of the preposition “about.” The reason the sentence sounds weird is that the preposition and the object are separated. “About whom else does the industry know and protect?” would be better, and make the relationships between the words clearer. “Know” can be both a transitive and an intransitive verb, so it is being used correctly. The word “else” is quite awkward, and removing it would improve the sentence.

The whole sentence is rather awkward, though. I would change it to something like "How many others does the industry know about and protect? Or even, “How many others do those in the industry know about and protect?”

Never mind who and whom - just get ‘me’ and ‘I’ sorted… please - pretty please.

Me and my family could never quite get that right.

And that can frustrate you and I.

I’ve a horrid feeling that boat has sailed.

We might was well agree that the “whom” boat has sailed, too. I have to admit that I’m pretty careful about trying to be correct in written communication, but I almost always just use “who” when speaking.
And I actually find it funnier when someone uses “whom” when it’s supposed to be “who”. It’s like an overcompensation or something. Or trying to sound sophisticated, but instead sounding a bit ignorant.

I tend to agree. I’m pretty careful about grammar and usage, and i tend to be pretty invested in maintaining what i see as reasonable standards. I spend considerable effort, in my job, encouraging my students to work on improving their writing.

Still, if there’s one thing i’d be willing to let go, it’s “whom.” This is partly because so many people are so bad at working out the who/whom distinction that things would probably be improved if we just ditched “whom” altogether. I think there are even areas where “whom” is correct, but where “who” works just fine, and even sounds better. The writer J.Y.T. Greig, writing around 1930, said:

I could get on board with that.

Yep. And this is precisely why it might be the path of least resistance to get rid of “whom” altogether. My students stick “whom” in all over the place in their essays, often in places where “who” is actually the proper usage.

It is, as you say, a sort of ignorant effort at formality and erudition, much like the myriad incorrect uses of “myself” that pervade modern speech and writing:

“He went to the movie with Pete and myself.”
“Please give the report to myself when it’s finished.”

Drives me crazy. It seems particularly pervasive among the business crowd.

Ohhh…arrrrrrgh! That’s like an itch I can’t scratch.

Must be that some of us got beaten so badly for improper use of “me” from our teachers, that any use of it triggers a risk aversion response. :slight_smile:

I say we should start a “ditch whom” effort. Whom is on board with that?

And let’s celebrate the “singular they” while we’re at it. If anyone is agains that, they can go pound sand!!

Thisis all you need to know.