Question to Republican voting woman.

[wonky]

@njtt

Because they have different views and feelings about what is best for women in general, and themselves in particular, than you do. I am not saying that they are right and you are wrong, but if you truly cannot understand how any women could have beliefs and values like those expressed in that article, then that is more a failing on your part (of empathy and open-mindedness) than it is one on theirs.

How dare we not be open minded about someone saying they think we should have less freedom.

“Feminism” doesn’t mean that women can’t stay at home if they want to. It just means they don’t have to. It’s not a lack of empathy that makes me not want my choices limited.

[PunditLisa]

The Heritage Foundation is not the Republican party any more than the ACLU is the Democratic party.

[Little_Pig]

@Ruken

Perhaps the OP could let us know what “this” is, and why he or she thinks it would discourage women from voting for Republicans.

Because after reading the article I recalled the following song lyrics:

We make her bear and raise our children
And then we leave her flat for being a fat old mother hen
We tell her home is the only place she would be
Then we complain that she’s too unworldly to be our friend

You remember this song, don’t you?

[Ruken]

@Little_Pig

Because after reading the article I recalled the following song lyrics:

We make her bear and raise our children
And then we leave her flat for being a fat old mother hen
We tell her home is the only place she would be
Then we complain that she’s too unworldly to be our friend

You remember this song, don’t you?

That is exactly what I had in mind as well.

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

@zweisamkeit

Qin, please understand that what I’m about to say is not intended as an attack. I think you exemplify this board’s goals - you are extremely intelligent and are truly willing to examine other perspectives and viewpoints to grow as a person.

Thank you and please don’t worry-I don’t find any criticism of my views offensive as long as its supported by argumentation.

But dude, this post? Extremely irritating. You really think fucking reproductive rights and abortion rights are essentially settled? Fucking really? Look, YOU are not *personally * impacted by laws restricting women’s reproductive rights - I’m going to suggest that perhaps you don’t worry about this because you don’t have to. In the past 3 years, we’ve enacted more abortion restrictions than during the entire previous decade

I understand your criticisms and I’m admittedly biased since I’m male and also pro-life. OTOH, while its true a whole bunch of new anti-abortion legislation has been passed (and even more proposed such as the absolutely absurd vaginal ultrasound bill), most of them have found themselves blocked by federal courts before it can be implemented. This is what I meant by abortion being a “settled issue”-the inertia of the courts will not allow any significant reversal of Roe v. Wade in the forseeable future.

This stuff has serious, real-world consequences for women. What about the 2012 study that showed 31 states can OVERRIDE a woman’s advanced directives regarding medical care and life support… if she is pregnant? They are legally able to ignore her written legal document AND her medical proxy to keep a woman on life support to continue fetal gestation.

I remember seeing the Dope thread on one such case some months ago, and it raised several questions. The most obvious question is when these advanced directives were written, did the women intend the directive to be in force in every possible situation where she is on life support including when she was pregnant?

Do you have ANY idea how it feels to learn you live in a state that has declared it can use your body as a literal incubator? Or seeing the legislation that passes? And then read a post that says that all these reproductive rights issues are “essentially settled”?

My post was on the whole, overhasty and overgeneralizing.

[j666]

@Qin_Shi_Huangdi

My post was on the whole, overhasty and overgeneralizing.

I believe you are referring to your response to my post,

“My priority is a woman’s right to her own body. My priority is human and civil rights in general.”

I made a statement about women’s reproductive rights, and you responded with a comment about gay marriage. Does it occur to you that approximately half the people likely to benefit directly from gay marriage are probably not likely to be concerned about unplanned pregnancies?

That’s not “hasty”. That’s not “overgeneralizing”.

That’s just not very aware of women and their particular concerns.

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

@j666

I believe you are referring to your response to my post,

“My priority is a woman’s right to her own body. My priority is human and civil rights in general.”

I made a statement about women’s reproductive rights, and you responded with a comment about gay marriage. Does it occur to you that approximately half the people likely to benefit directly from gay marriage are probably not likely to be concerned about unplanned pregnancies?

That’s not “hasty”. That’s not “overgeneralizing”.

That’s just not very aware of women and their particular concerns.

I hope that the wording of my statement makes it clear it referred to my own post.

[Kenm]

@MEBuckner

Their husbands tell them to vote Republican?

I don’t think Republican women should vote at all. Everyone would be happy.

[Little_Pig]

@Kenm

I don’t think Republican women should vote at all. Everyone would be happy.

I either read or heard (boy, do I wish I had saved the cite) that there is a contingent of Republican woman who do believe that women should no longer have the right to vote, saying it destroyed the fabric of the home. I kid you not.

[Rodgers01]

@skdo23

This. Generally speaking, most Republicans that I know of either sex have little in common with, and might even feel somewhat alienated by, the party’s current leadership/agenda/pundits. However, due to longstanding loyalty to the GOP and/or because of various beliefs they hold (usu. fiscally related), voting for a Democrat is still outside of their comfort zone.

Also, it has usually been my experience that supporters of both parties (myself included) tend to be dismissive of the more controversial aspects of their party’s agenda because our system of checks and balances tends to keep them in check. For example, a close moderate Republican friend of mine’s views on fiscal policy often result in her voting for pro-life and/or pro-DOMA candidates (she is neither) but she rationalizes this by saying that she trusts the judiciary to constrain the more extreme elements of the GOP on these type of issues.

Well put. IANA Republican or a woman, but it’s pretty clear that this woman’s opinion is not official Republican party policy, or even mainstream Repulican policy, so far as I can tell. It’s not surprising that a woman could read that, be angry (or not) and still vote Republican.

@ZPG_Zealot

There is a certain type of woman (my mother was unfortunately one of them) who have this fantasy of being a little housewife, being completely taken care of by their husband, and never having to actually do anything or be responsible for anything beyond cooking meals and some light cleaning. It is too these woman that the Heritage Foundation message will appeal to. Even when reality slams these woman in the head that their being taken care by Prince Charming fantasy isn’t going to happen, they will persist in believing in it’s possibility if only whatever outside source they use for a scrapegoat didn’t exist. Nothing is harder to stop than the human capacity to fantasize.

“Prince Charming” as such may not exist, but it is possible to have a single-income household where the stay-at-home person just does light housework and cooks the meals. (And, of course, a whole lot more if they happen to have kids.) I know people in that position.

[puddleglum]

The reality, the panelists at Heritage said, is that women are less happy than they were before the feminist movement, that women enjoy domestic work and that most moms would prefer not to work full time, if at all.

1. Women are less happy than they were before the feminist movement. True (pdf) “yet we show that measures of subjective well-being indicate that women’s happiness has declined both absolutely and relative to men.”
   2.Women enjoy domestic work. True " we find that women have more favorable attitudes toward cleaning, cooking, and child care than do men: Women enjoy it more, set higher standards for it, and feel more responsible for it. "
   3.Most moms would prefer not to work full time, if at all. True " “Among working mothers with minor children (ages 17 and under), just one-in-five (21%) say full-time work is the ideal situation for them, down from the 32% who said this back in 1997, according to a new Pew Research Center survey. Fully six-in-ten (up from 48% in 1997) of today’s working mothers say part-time work would be their ideal, and another one-in-five (19%) say she would prefer not working at all outside the home.”
   That may be uncomfortable to face for some people but denying reality is no way to go through life.
   Keep in mind the article linked to was a liberal columnist’s caricature of what was said. Hereis a column by one of the women quoted.

[you_with_the_face]

I don’t what is more sad: that they seem to think feminism was harmful because it led to such dastardly things as increasing women’s options in life beyond babymaking, or that they mistake correlation for causation.

Perhaps if these folks would put down the anti-feminist koolaid and enroll in some critical thinking classes, they wouldn’t be proposing such hare brained schemes. Increasing marriage rates will not increase the number of conservatives. If anything, it’ll cause the liberals to breed quicker. Liberals with kids to care for aren’t suddenly going to be against social spending. And they aren’t going to suddenly become more sympathetic to the tax woes of the 10%, either.

[wonky]

@you_with_the_face

I don’t what is more sad: that they seem to think feminism was harmful because it led to such dastardly things as increasing women’s options in life beyond babymaking, or that they mistake correlation for causation.

“I don’t want a life outside of the home, so you shouldn’t have the option.”

[you_with_the_face]

How do conservatives reconcile their policies and platforms with the nostalgic two parent household-male breadwinner-SAHM-2.5 kids ideal? This is what I really want to know. Pretty much every conservative economic position I can think of makes it harder for women to stay home. Republicans don’t want to increase the minimum wage, they don’t want to increase taxes on the wealthy, and they don’t want to increase access to affordable healthcare. Okay, fair enough. But you can’t be against all these things and then tut-tut when women stay in the workforce to keep their households solvent.

So what policies are Republicans willing to create that will make it easier for families to return to the good old days? Are they going to penalize companies that outsource to other countries? Are they going to support unions so that workers will have some assurance their wages won’t be cut capriciously? Will they fund schools and college grants so that kids will be sufficiently trained for tomorrow’s industries?

Or will they simply continue to preach about the way we should live, while doing nothing to help?

[Blackberry]

@you_with_the_face

How do conservatives reconcile their policies and platforms with the nostalgic two parent household-male breadwinner-SAHM-2.5 kids ideal? This is what I really want to know. Pretty much every conservative economic position I can think of makes it harder for women to stay home. Republicans don’t want to increase the minimum wage, they don’t want to increase taxes on the wealthy, and they don’t want to increase access to affordable healthcare. Okay, fair enough. But you can’t be against all these things and then tut-tut when women stay in the workforce to keep their households solvent.

My sister, who is a SAHM and was a homemaker before she had kids and plans to be one forever, just feels that society would naturally correct itself and be set up for women to stay home if women started staying home more. Her husband makes good money so it’s not an issue for her. But she wants the neighbor women to stay at home too so she can hang out with them (even though she wouldn’t anyway…she’s just imagining how things must have been in the 1950s and thinking that sounds fun. But nobody is stopping her from putting on heels every day to vacuum and yet I don’t see her doing that).