Questions about becoming a teacher

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’ve been giving a lot of thought in recent months to becoming a math teacher. I’m currently in my first year of my MS in Statistics, but I don’t plan on continuing the program. As it stands, I can make the switch to the MST program at my school and still finish the degree by June 2011.

The main reason I’m on the fence about it is the pay - I feel like I’d be dooming myself to a lifetime of a mediocre salary. But, I don’t really know that much about how the system works. I’ve looked at web sites such as this one, and some of those average salaries (ten years down the line) look okay, but not stellar. What might I expect after 15 or 20 years?

I’d be most interested in teaching at a community college, where I’d be teaching adults (i.e. people who want to be there), and the money would be a bit better. But my limited understanding is that a full-time position would be difficult to come by, and I’d have an easier time becoming a high school teacher. Is this true?

2

What is an MST degree? Master of Science in Teaching, Technology…???

I have a Bachelor’s in Spanish but a Master’s in Education, but without a Master’s in Spanish, I could not teach it at the community college level, or so the employment websites of the colleges around here would lead me to believe. It may be different in your area of specialization, though.

Also to teach in a high school, you will need several courses in pedagogy if not an outright teaching degree. There are programs in alternative certification that vary depending on your state; you can start teaching pretty quickly under these programs, but you must also concurrently take a course or two or ten in ed psych, etc. Be warned, however, that pursuing a course or two in your “spare time (ha! what’s that?!)” as a practicing teacher under alt cert guidelines can easily destroy your soul, especially if you have a family.

Finally, it seems you already know this but most college lecturing gigs are just that; you get paid a stipend, but there are no benefits, job security, etc., until you land a professorship. Research into that plus what PhD’s are posting here on the Dope leads me to conclude that secure jobs in higher ed are scarce and becoming more so lately.

I hope someone with more experience chimes in soon, and good luck!

-Polly Glot, first year HS teacher, in it because I love the kids - and the summers off!!! :wink:

3

HAHAHAHAhahahahahaha… ahahahha… :: sniffle ::

Don’t get the idea that community college students are any more motivated than high school students. Like any class, you will have a mixture of motivated, disinterested, and everything in between. Also, the money sucks. You will have to teach at more than one college in order to get enough classes to make a decent salary (unless you get lucky) and tenure track positions are very hard to come by. You have to work your ass off, play the game, and even then you may not get a tenure track position for years, if ever. (Your chances are much better once you get out of the city and the nearby suburbs, though.)

Getting a job at a private high school can pay a fairly decent salary, although as Polly Glot mentioned you’ll probably need some teaching courses or a teaching degress under your belt. The one good thing about teaching at community colleges is that all you really need is an MA.

4

To clarify: the MST degree is Master of Science in Teaching Mathematics. One of the requirements for the degree is 9 units (3 classes) in Education.

5

AIUI, many school districts are going begging for math teachers, especially male math teachers, so finding a job shouldn’t be a problem. (I assume you’re male.)

Some advice, though. The university you linked to offers both the MST and a regular master’s in education. Talk to both programs to make sure you’re in the best one for you based on your academic and personal backgrounds. Who is each program designed for? (I’m thinking that the MST is for people who want to teach math who don’t have an academic background in math.) Find out what their placement rates are. Where are their graduates working? What kind of career support can you expect from the university and department after graduation? What kind of alumni network is there? And the big one, what kind of financial support is there while you’re in school?

Also, make sure you know and understand exactly what the licensing requirements are for the state where you plan to teach, and make sure you keep up with any changes. There is nothing like getting a nasty surprise when you apply for your certificate and the department of education kicks it back because you missed something somewhere, or you took the wrong competency exam. (I have classmates who have done both. Thirty-five grand potentially down the toilet because of something a simple phone call could have solved.)

Here are the requirements for certification in Oregon with a link to the Oregon Teacher Standards Commission, which I guess oversees the teacher certification process.

Good luck and report back!

6

Couple things:

Salaries very a great deal by state and location. Typically, rural schools pay the worst, urban schools the best (this always surprises people) and suburban schools are in the middle. Teacher salaries are very stagnant: after the first year, step increases are small. However, it is quite possible to supplement your income through incentive programs, summer school, outside tutoring, coaching, etc: I added over ten grand to my base salary that way last year. Many of those sorts of things are very time consuming and you probably won’t want to do them the first few years.

Furthermore, administration is a viable career path. Principals make decent money–80-100K around here–and there are many positions in the central office.

More later. I am late for work!

7

My wife is a teacher, so I can give you some thoughts.

The pay isn’t THAT bad, though it varies widely from district to district And if you have more education (e.g. a master’s degree) it can get quite high. Of course it’s probably quite a bit less than you can get in a career in the private sector.

You have to be able to talk to kids – be able to explain things in a way they understand, be able to make sure they know when they’re doing something wrong, be able to discipline them appropriately.

You should realize that teaching takes a lot of time outside the classroom during the school year preparing lessons and correcting and grading tests and papers.

But if you feel it’s what you want to do, then you should go for it. Through my wife I’ve met quite a few teachers; many of them couldn’t imagine being in any other job.

8

Typically, it takes a while to work your way far enough up the pay scale to where supplementing your income is no longer a necessity. If you teach in a collective bargaining state, contracts get renegotiated every few years. Unless your bargaining team is a a skilled one, this can result in bump steps and/or getting frozen on step. In practice, a bump step means that you’ll go for years making chump change until you “get over the hump.” Bump steps typically result from the bargaining unit deciding to screw over new hires in favor of taking care of those already on the payroll. Step freezes keep you from moving up the payscale the way you should. I’ve been with my district since 1992 and am still not at the top of the payscale as a result of step freezes.
Ask to see a copy of the pay ladder at any district where you interview. Generally speaking, the more steps there are, the less desirable. Bump steps are bad, whether at the bottom or the top of the scale. You don’t want the gap between the bottom step and the top step measured in parsecs. You need to consider what you are earning over your entire career, not just what you’ll be making when (if) you reach the top.

9

Lots of districts pay some sort of stipend for math and science teachers–it can be anywhere from $500-$3000/year.

Every school district I’ve ever seen puts their base salary schedule on the web, so you can go look there–but again, remember that you can add up to 10K/year to that through various means.

If you want to teach very talented/dedicated kids, don’t look to community colleges, look to AP/IB classes in high school. There is more of a filter–some of the lazy ones opt out (though many do not, because their parents demand more or they want to be in with their friends) and the top is truly top–I teach kids that go on to the top school in the country, kids who literally dazzle me with their intellect and their insight (not all of them, but a few a year). I don’t think that’s the norm at a community college.

10

Absolutely spot-on. I AM the cc instructor who cannot get FT work; the chances of getting that now are darn near nil. There are some bright students in the ccs and the unis (I’ve taught in both systems, and there is no difference between the students that I have seen), but for the most part they are lazy, uninterested, heavy on the attitude, etc. They don’t want to be there, but their parents pushed them or they didn’t know what else to do.
And it’s hourly pay; you get paid only for the hours spent in the classroom–and, if you’re lucky, some office hour pay, but you may not have a physical office space.

11

Thanks for the replies so far. I’ve thought of a couple of questions:

  1. How easy/hard is it to go from state to state as far as the certification process goes? Once I get my degree, am I supposed to pick a state to become certified in, then only look for work in that state? That seems silly. I would want to look for a job nationwide - I’m single, no kids, and I’ve got nothing tying me to where I currently am.

  2. The administration path is something I might someday consider. However, I neglected to mention my age earlier: I’ll be earning my MS in June of next year, right as I’m turning 40. How many years of experience are needed to, say, work one’s way up to being a principal? 15, 20, 25? Would I have much of a career before thinking about retirement?

  3. This is the one that a lot of people are going to :rolleyes: over, I’m sure… I have long hair - down to the middle of my back. I’ve had it for 20 years, and it is a part of me, part of who I am. I am loathe to cut it, but I realize if I choose this career path I probably wouldn’t have a choice… or would I? I’m thinking back to when I was in high school in the '80s, when a male teacher with even slightly long hair was unheard of. Has this changed at all in the past 20+ years?

12

  1. It really, really depends on the states involved. Where are you? Where do you think you might end up?

  2. Usually you need 3 years experience to start the process, then another couple to complete your certification/degree (there are lots of programs designed for working teacher). Admin from 50-65 would certainly be possible, and is plenty of years.

  3. No problem at my school. I am in a very urban school district and many of my coworkers have long hair, or tattoos.

13

You haven’t yet said whether you have an undergraduate degree in math. If you have that plus math-related business experience, you could start teaching in the fall if you wanted to. One way is through programs like Teach Tennessee, which put you in the classroom right away while you take education classes at a local college. The other way is to teach at a private school, most of which do not require a teaching certificate. You can try searching for openings here or look for a placement agency.

Generally speaking, schools in fast-growing areas will make it easy for teachers to move in and start teaching right away. Places like Florida, Texas, and Arizona are building new schools all the time, so the demand for new teachers is very high. In slow-growing parts of the country, breaking in is more difficult.

Once you have a teaching job, everything depends on how hard you’re willing to work. Those teachers who put in the extra hours that are needed to deliver great lectures and work one-on-one with students get noticed and their careers advance. (Especially in small schools and small districts; it’s harder to get noticed in a school with 200 teachers.) That said, I have to warn you not to underestimate how stressful the job is. For most beginning teachers, the first couple years require serious struggle, and it’s only later that they have a chance to refine their teaching skills.

It would probably be a a slight put-off, but nothing that a good interview couldn’t overcome.

14

I’ve taught math and stat for many years, but I do it as an adjunct faculty member. In other words, I don’t rely on the money for my living. It’s a real shame how little math teachers make relative to their industry counterparts. So my advice is to find a way to try teaching before deciding if it’s for you. There aren’t big bucks, but it can be very rewarding in other ways, such as the good will and appreciation of your students (not all of them, of course!). To be able to share one’s knowledge and experience is a wonderful talent, but classroom teaching is not a path to monetary riches.

15

I’m going to Portland State University right now. As for where I think I’ll wind up - wherever I can find a good job. :slight_smile: When it comes to looking, I would ideally like to live somewhere with a cooler climate - basically any of the northern parts of the US. Including Alaska.

I have my BS in Math, which I earned less than a year ago. I’m currently working on my MS in Statistics, and am thinking about changing over to the MS in Math Teaching program the school offers. I have no business experience with math, nor do I have any teaching experience. All of my “professional” experience comes from running a restaurant for several years… I did hire, train, and work with plenty of high school and college kids, but I’m not sure that really counts for anything.

I have no aspirations to be rich, but I would like to be comfortable down the road. My main fear in becoming a high school teacher is that in 20 years I’d only be making $50K or $55K… which is about what I made running a pizza parlor. Granted, I lived in San Jose, so that $50K there was like making $25K in other places, so perhaps my perception of salary vs. cost of living is skewed.

16

If you are willing to move, you really could be teaching in the fall. Google “alternate certification programs” and see what pops up: I could tell you about Texas, but we aren’t cool weather.

17

I’m not trying to shit on anyone’s riff vis-a-vis a job at a community college (as I think the advice that’s already on the table is good) but I can be the voice of dissent a little.

I ended up with my MA in English at a pretty good time, oddly enough–right about when the economy tanked. With so many people either out of work or uneasy about the prospect of being out of work, enrollment in local community colleges soared. I ended up getting a full-time position on my first interview, at the school where I had adjuncted as a developmental English instructor for a year. Our department posted 2 job openings due to the surge in demand, plus the ongoing trend of dual-credit courses, plus a recognized need for developmental instructors.

Are you damning yourself to a mediocre income? Idunno. My starting salary was 50k in an area where the per capita income is 14k. Plus, I get the benefits that a high school teacher would get (paid by the state) without having to worry about all the bullshit standardized testing, daily lesson plans, intrusive administration, etc. etc. etc. As an added benefit I don’t pay into social security and don’t have to worry about it in the future, as the state has a pension system for teachers. Administrators at my little college start at 70k, according to the job postings I see occasionally. Our President and VP-Instruction both have PhD’s, but the chair of my department and my division dean do not.

I’m not sure why the sentiment seems to be that there’s a shortage of jobs in this field–I’m sure that’s the case if you’re looking for tenure-track at a 4-year, as there are never many of those openings, even in good times. FWIW, dual credit is big now and getting bigger. I teach 4 sections of intro. to writing/literature at one local high school, and I broadcast via interactive TV to 2 more. Others in the department cover other area high schools. Students are able to earn some college hours while they’re in high school, but in order to do so they have to meet the test score parameters and have permission from the counselor. What that means for me is that while I do teach in the physical location of the high school quite a bit, I’m teaching the best and the brightest–students motivated by their senior rankings, etc., and I don’t have to answer to their mommies and daddies, let alone their principal, school board, etc.

Personally, I love it. Best of both worlds. Hell, on MWF I’m at home by noon.

In a lot of ways I feel like one of the luckiest people in the world. My contract requires that I teach a 5 classes per semester and spend 30 hours per week on campus (which really works out to 15 hours teaching and 15 hours in the office per week.) The level of physical “work” I do is nothing compared to basically every job I’ve ever held. I see my supervisors every once in a while, but I’m essentially left alone to teach in whatever manner and style I see fit.

The only real ‘downside,’ if you can call it that, is that the contract has that last clause about ‘other duties as assigned,’ which means I work as a check-in guy at registration each semester, I get appointed to committees (currently faculty senate and as a cohort for a reading program,) and I have to get all gussied up in hood and gown and participate in one graduation ceremony per year. Oh, and earn either 3 credit hours of graduate work or accumulate 45 hours of seminars every 3 years.

Disclaimers: this is Texas…things are different elsewhere; the recession hasn’t really affected this area all that much; I teach in a ‘core’ component, which means every single student in the state that wants a degree must take a minimum of 2 English classes.

18

I’ll do that, thanks. But first… I’ve seen several ads for this sort of thing, and a few months back I looked into one of them a bit. IIRC, the cost was about $6K. Now, that would be much cheaper than another year at a university, but if I get my Master’s first, wouldn’t I possibly start at a higher rate of pay, or move up the salary structure faster, or both?

It’s definitely something to think about - I like the idea of jumping right in and having a real job this year… then in a couple of years I could go back and finish my MS.

BlakeTyner, thank you - that’s the kind of thing I wanted to hear! :slight_smile:

19

No problem, sir. I tend to be a silver lining kind of guy. I try to be, anyway.

Something else that’s been bothering me…

After I made my post, I happened into the “How long have you been unemployed” thread and then re-read what I’d posted here. My tone strikes me as being more ‘braggy’ than I intended it to. I wasn’t trying to rub anyone’s face in anything–truth is, like I said above, I feel very lucky to have a job. More lucky that it’s a good one. I just wanted to get that off my chest–hopefully nobody took my post as condescending. I was striving for honesty, that’s all.
GESancMan, something I wanted to add: some states have programs wherein if you teach in a certain discipline (math or hard science usually) OR in a poor school district for a certain number of years (5 here,) the state will actually pay part or all of your student loan debt. I seriously considered it, because the high school is literally a block from my duplex, whereas my CC is an hour away. For me, I ended up in a situation I like better, but there are a LOT of people who would benefit from a setup like that. It may be something to consider.

Also, lots of times a school will hire you to teach while you get your certificate; here, the grace period is a year. I detailed above why I don’t think I’d make it as a secondary school teacher, but hey…if you have the ganas, go for it.

Also, try to get some teaching experience if you can. Get hired as a tutor at a place like Sylvan or one of the online tutoring services. Put an ad in the paper. Maybe even substitute for a bit. Truth is, there are some people who just aren’t cut out to teach. Better to find out before you go through the post-bacc certification.

I’ve thanked my lucky stars many times that I seem to fit teaching and that I love it. What you don’t want is to become that guy that we all had, who basically hated the job and the life and had let 20 years of public school teaching ruin his soul.

20

I guess it depends on what you mean by “comfortable.” My wife retired after 35 years – but she hit the top of the salary scale at year 20. What was a nice salary at year 20 was not so nice by year 35, but still middle-class. She has a decent pension, but the state changed that way back in 1993 and she was grandfathered in the old system. She won’t starve, but retirement isn’t going to be 25 years of traveling around the world, either.