Questions about buying a guitar

My standard advice to beginners is to start a on an electric, string it with very light gauge strings and don’t worry about an amp until you are starting to learn some stuff and think you might stick with it. As you develop some callous on your fingertips you can bump up the string gauge. Heavier gauge strings generally sound better (IMHO) and don’t break as often. An unamplified electric guitar is plenty loud enough to hear yourself play without bothering others and when you start to build up some chops…buy a practice amp.

Totally biased here but I like the ergonomics of Fender Stratocasters or knock-offs of same.

It’s unrelated. Nylon string guitars are designed for a different purpose to steel string guitars and you can find cheap and expensive examples of each (though not necessarily in the same brand.) Expensive acoustic guitars have good quality solid wood on the body, good quality parts, are well built, and have a good setup straight from the factory. Whether you get a nylon or steel string depends entirely on what style of music you want to play.

To the OP, you’ve discovered one of the limitations of learning the guitar. There is initially a steep learning curve just to get a nice sound out of it.

Thank you everyone. This is why I posted this on the dope. I knew that I’d get all kinds of advice from knowledgeable people. I guess I need to do some reading and then visit a good store and check out some instruments.

I’m really more interested in acoustic. I want to play for my own pleasure and for family and friends so an electric doesn’t really seem appropriate. However, I will consider the suggestion that an electric may be an easier route to get to where I want to go. I could always start out with an electric then sell it and graduate to an acoustic. I’ll have to handle some in a store and see what seems right.

Absolutely the right way to go about this, but let me add something: if you even think you’ll want to play acoustic guitar, get one first, then get an electric. IMO acoustic guitar is harder to play, and learning the hard stuff first will make the easy stuff feel like a knife cutting through warm butter: no effort at all.

If you go the other way, you’ll just struggle with electric, then struggle again to make everything you know work on an acoustic.

I got this advice w/regard to my strings and plectrum choice years ago, and I immediately switched to the biggest, nastiest, hardest to deal with strings and pick I could find, as well as practicing the most difficult thing in the world (at the time): picking up and down. :mad: It sucked for a while, but now I can handle any new guitar with ease, and I my speed and dexterity picking are solid. :smiley:

Luckily for me, I hate acoustic guitar, except when wielded by someone like Bola Sete or Robert Fripp or something. But me, I’ll prolly never own one, so it was fine to get an electric first.

In fact, I’m glad I got my Les Paul Custom as my first guitar. Carrying a 30 pound block of wood on your shoulder to practice for a few years made me strong like an ox. Now when I play my Steinberger, it’s like not even having anything on my shoulders.

I have small hands and I’m a guitar player. I’ve found the necks on Ibanez guitars are the most comfortable fit for me. Some of the Fenders and Rickenbackers are also pretty good. Finding an acoustic guitar that’s comfortable for me to play has always been the biggest challenge.

But unless a guitar is set up improperly, or it’s one of those nylon string acoustics with insanely fat necks, the size of the neck shouldn’t be that much of a problem. It’s very common for beginners to have trouble properly fretting strings, and that sometimes comes down to cheap and nasty or improperly set up guitars, but more often it’s just that they haven’t yet discovered the most natural way to fret the various chords. Beginners torture themselves by trying to contort their hands into unnatural positions, and by applying too much pressure in the wrong place.

In the end, it just comes down to practice.

I don’t have a lot to say. I just want to follow this thread. I’m 65 and ready to try again. I know how difficult that is, so I’m just gonna channel SRV. Cool huh? :cool:
Peace,
mangeorge
I’ll just lurk now.

So, you think maybe an acoustic Ibanez of the inexpensive sort, Kim? I’ve heard good things about the Artwood.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Ibanez-AW30-ARTWOOD-SERIES-Acoustic-Guitar-512309-i1441935.gc

So here’s the thing - Mr. Zager has found a set up that works well for him. That doesn’t mean it’s necessarily going to work well for you, nor for anyone else whose hands and playing style aren’t a lot like Mr. Zager’s.

I remember going into a guitar shop in Cornwall, ON, where the proprietor was also the guitar tech, and every instrument was set to his specifications, as I found out when I went to play some of his steel strings. “Do you have anything with the action and frets a little higher, and strung a little tighter?” I asked. I got an earful about how his guitars were all perfectly set up to his ideal, and that I needed to change how I was playing. Yet one more reason that I hate Cornwall, ON.

At any rate - I highly recommend going in person to a guitar shop with a guitar-playing friend. (The guitar teacher who was giving the lessons - is he or she still on the scene? A real, live, in person teacher is a really good idea - I cannot express this opinion strongly enough. Why, yes, I do teach guitar, and a huge part of that teaching is correcting the thoroughly ingrained bad habits acquired by the self-taught, or book-taught, or web-lesson taught.) Go through a number of instruments; the friend plays the same three short pieces on each of them. You will walk in there thinking you won’t be able to hear the difference. You will walk out of there being amazed at the difference between instruments in the same price range, sometimes even from the same maker. Have the friend help you finger something really basic so that you can feel how the guitar fits your own hand. D Major and e minor chords, perhaps.

Your first guitar may not be the guitar you grow into - just accept that. It’s a good idea to get an instrument that is good enough to be adjustable. In my experience, it’s not impossible to find a worthwhile instrument in the $100. - $200 range, it’s just that it’s so unlikely as to be a large waste of time. By the time you hit the $400. range, you’re much more likely to be able to find something worthwhile.

Get the best guitar you can afford.

Steel-string acoustics are the hardest on your fingers for starting out. In string tension, there’s an inverse relation between volume and ease of play - the higher the tension on the string, the more sound it can project, but the harder it is to press the string to the fingerboard. Too loose, and the sound quality drops off. Steel string acoustics sound better with a higher string tension than an electric.

Nylon string classical guitars have a different idea behind their construction - they are built to project single notes well. The soundboard gets overwhelmed with a lot of rapid strumming of all six strings. The nylon strings are far easier on your fingers, but the guitar may not respond well to your style of playing. That being said, this is your first guitar - maybe it would work well for you to learn on a classical for a year and then trade it in for your intermediate player guitar. Just a thought worth considering…

Electric guitars have a couple of handy things for the students - they don’t have to be strung with high tension strings to produce good sound, and you can practice silently at all hours of the day or night. Most amps produced in the last 10 years have a headphone jack that cuts the speaker out of the circuit, so you can play with a natural sound but no one else has to hear it. Good for woodshedding.

So, even sticking with a steel-stringed acoustic, what should you be looking at? Neck width and neck profile are going to be important, esp. for someone with smaller fingers. Scale length, the distance between the nut and the saddle of the bridge, is very important also. You want to be able to reach from 1st fret to 4th fret comfortably. You and your guitar friend with you in the shop need to be your own best judges - is that a stretch that will develop or is the scale length just too long for you. I like a 640 mm neck. I can play a 650, and a 660 is no fun at all. Some classicals come in 665 - I’ve never played one, but I can’t imagine I’d like it.

About your fingers - ‘bumping adjacent strings’ has many causes. Possible causes include the neck is too narrow for you - however, check that all your fingers are truly perpendicular (in both planes) and the string is centred under your finger. How’s the curve of your fingers - are any of the joints flattened out or bent the other way? Are you directly to the left of the fret, assuming you’re a right-handed player? And most important, are your fingers calloused yet? Calloused fingertips don’t spread as much against the fretboard. Are you holding the neck of the guitar like your niece’s hand as you cross the street, or like something foul you found on the floor, or like the neck of someone who owes you a thousand dollars? Hint - go for the niece’s hand.

Do you want to wrap your thumb or not? The profile of the neck can help or hinder whether you can get your thumb around to the 6th string or not…

I’ve got to leave it there for now… good luck with it all and have fun!

Because then when you play a real guitar for a gig or whatever it’s like it’s not even there.

Seriously though dude-OP, your first guitar is so insignificant. The strings could be made of spider silk and it would still feel wrong. I owned and played my first shit guitar for three years before upgrading. When it became time, I actually knew how to play, so I could pick my new instrument intelligently. Sure, a shit guitar sounds like shit, but who cares? You’re a musician and you know what the song would sound like on a real instrument. Guitars are overrated and guitarists are underrated. I can’t fathom you people who actually care what you play :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t know about that, Wally. I love rubbing bellies with my old Ovation. Reminds me of my ex-wife. Now if only I can learn some chords. Maybe three. :smiley:
“rock rock rock, rock and roll high school”
Yeah!

As good as I am, this actually reminds me of a real problem. I like to play with no shirt on. I have no strap, but it doesn’t matter 'cause the guitar sticks to my belly skin decent enough. It’s just that the guitar gets so freaking cold, it’s like holding an icecube against my stomach. I suppose I could just buy a strap, but I like having an excuse to play with no shirt. Suggestions?

Who says you need an excuse? I’ve never seen Matt Pike (Sleep, High On Fire) play with a shirt on. In fact, I’ve never even seen a picture of him playing with a shirt on. Some peeps just don’t like shirts. Me, I don’t like pants. Or shoes.

ETA: That’s why they write articles about him titled Matt Pike Don’t Need No Stinking Shirt!

No prob. I have a fake ice pack that’s made of mylar It’s about 7" x 8" x about 3/4 inch thick. A lot of people don’t know this, but those things will also keep warm (hot, even) as well as cold.
So, simply velcro the pack to the back of your axe (heh heh, mangeorge said “axe”) then you can take it off and put it in warm water for a while then stick it back on and enjoy a nice warm belly while you amaze the chicks for free.
You got anything on youtube? If you link to Mark Knopfler I’m gonna call you by a really bad name.

Argh - with all the Halloween stuff going on and this pesky job thing, I have no time. Good advice so far - really sounds like a question of ensuring your guitar is well set up and you are putting in the right kind of practice - i.e., take a lesson or two to insure you have the correct fingering, make sure your guitar is properly set up and then prepare to practice for a while to get more comfortable with fingering.

I am digging into Keith Richards’ autobio - really a great read - and he stops on a regular basis and shares hard-earned guitar wisdom - and it is really good stuff. One of his most basic is: start on acoustic and then play electric. Learn how a guitar breathes…

There are three basic variables when setting up a guitar;

[ol]
[li]Relief. There should be a very slight concavity in the neck. In some guitars this can be adjusted by tightening/loosening the truss rod. In other guitars (notably Martin, though I haven’t looked recently) it cannot be adjusted. In my experience, guitars from reputable makers come from the factory with this adjustment good enough so that no beginning guitarist would want to change it. It may need adjustment later on due to player preferences or changes in the guitar.[/li]
[li]String height at the nut (the last thing the strings go over on their way to gears). This always comes from the factory a bit high. This is because it is easier to take it down than to build it back up. Furthermore the factory has no idea of the personal preferences of the owner and is not going to invest the time necessary to set a guitar up to their own preferences. Building string height up at the nut means replacing the nut.[/li]
[li]String height at the saddle (the last thing the strings go over on the other side). This also comes a little high from the factory for the same reasons stated above. This is the only adjustment that a beginner should even think about doing themselves. If you take all the strings off, the saddle will pop right out of the bridge and you can sand it down. If you take it down too far, a new one is cheaply bought and easily installed.[/li][/ol]
String spacing is messed about by some luthiers and if I am not mistaken (and I could be), Denny Zager changes the string spacing.

The downside of very low action (string height) is that heavy playing can make the strings buzz. There will also be less volume.

I seem to recall that the guitars Zager alters get a premium of about $150. You could likely get a guitar properly set up for about $50 if you knew a good guitar technician, perhaps less if you bought the guitar there. I have never played one of Zager’s guitars so I can’t speak to the quality of his setup, but it is not rocket science and this is all he does, so it is likely that he does a fairly good job, if it is a bit expensive. Many guitar techs, especially less experienced ones, will not bring the action down as low as it can be, for the same reasons I mentioned above. Denny Zager appears to have built his reputation on low action, so if that is what you want, maybe that is the way to go.

I failed to read the entire OP with the quote.

The things I discussed would be what any guitar tech would address in a setup. They would in no way mess about with the braces and the only way they might address the frets would be to polish off any burrs. I suspect this is what Denny does and the rest is just advertising bs. He might choose the guitars he alters for neck profile and bracing, but altering either one of these would invalidate the manufacturer’s warranty.

As far as string spacing is concerned, you should know that there are different widths for the fingerboards. Choosing one that suits you makes more sense than changing the spacing.

I’m now leaning against using Zager but, to address your point about invalidating the warranty, Zager does give a money back guarantee and a “lifetime warranty”, although I can’t find specifics about the warranty.

That doesn’t sound like a “too small fingers” thing. that really sounds like a “too skinny neck” problem. Either that, or you just don’t hold it properly, the fingers should generally be a perpendicular as possible. Yes, there’s a reason the “old 50’s style baseball bat” necks are still popular.

Stop with the cool blues and play hot jazz? :smiley: