The guitar

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I’m looking at possibly liquidating a collection of cards. The proceeds from this will hopefully give me enough money to do something big-like purchase a guitar, or buy a new computer for an internet radio station.

What I want to ask you guys is advice on the guitar (the net radio questions will come later). Who plays? How long did it take you to get to the point where you felt reasonably comfortable playing in front of an audience? Can I teach myself? Any reccommendations would be welcome.

I’ve got a friend in a band, who advised me that I would probably be best suited getting an acoustic and learning on that. I can read sheet music fairly well (I have a basic knowledge of the piano). He seemed to think that I could probably swing teaching myself, or at least make due with some advice and a few pointers from him. Any arguments with this assessment?

Oh, and anybody wanna buy a lot of Magic cards?

Then he said, “That is that.”
And then he was gone.
-Dr. Seuss, * The Cat in the Hat*

2

You must have a lot of damn cards.

My credentials: playing guitar ten years - drums are my main instrument - I can read music - play bass guitar, too - a tid bit of piano - symphonic percussion (timpini, et al)

I own a Gibson steel string acoustic and rock out on an Ibenez flying V through a MESA dual rectifier 80W stereo amp.

What you should buy is dependant upon your musical preferences. If you’re into John Denver, Eagles, Beatles for example, you’ll do best on a decent (Ovation, Gibson, etc.) acoustic.

You listen to a lot of Bach, Mozart or even Randy Rhodes - nylon string classical guitar would be perfect (but the thich neck will be a challenge)

If Hendrix, Morello, Iomi and Page float your boat, invest in a decent electric (try a bunch first, the losers at the music stores will try and rip you off any way they can) and amp (don’t bother with the pointless pratice amps they’ll try to sell you).

Without knowing your tastes in music I would agree with your friend that an acoustic guitar with some sheet music would be a perfect start. Besides, after the first of the year when all the power goes out you can still ROCK! Remember that lessons are essential to rapid growth on any instrument. Being self-taught means you have to figure things out that have already been done and improved upon. Musical theory is a bonus (I still don’t quite grasp time signature for instance).

Before you start playing, make sure someone talented shows you the basics (holding the guitar, posture, chord formation, fingering, tuning, etc.)

Forget about the net radio - that’s almost as gay as the magic cards. If you really want to be a man buy a drumset!

Hell is Other People.

3

I’d second the lessons. I’ve been playing a guitar for about ten years, but very casually. I’ll pick it up and start playing it, and after a few days I forget about it and it sits for a few months.

I can read sheet music, and used to play a sax in a stage band. One thing I hate about guitar is that if you don’t play it for a while, you lose the calluses on your fingers and it takes a few days of playing before you feel comfortable again.

I just bought a keyboard, and I’m amazed at how fast I’m picking it up compared to the guitar. After a few weeks of practice, I’m probably as good on it as I was on the guitar after a year or two.

I found that reading music didn’t help me on the guitar that much. It helps tremendously on the piano, though.

4

I would recommend an acoustic for beginners. You will find as you begin playing that your hands will tire and your fingertips will hurt for lack of calluses. The (typically) higher action and the thicker gauge of string found on an acoustic guitar will build strength in your hands and calluses.

In addition, as mentioned before, you don’t need electricity to play, though some acoustics offer built in electronics for amplification.

The best thing I can tell you is not to skimp on the guitar. Few things are as discouraging as buying an instrument only to be disappointed in the sound and quality of it. Spend some time playing different models. For a quality acoustic without the big name price tag, look at a Larrivee. In the $600 - $800 range, a Larrivee looks, plays and sounds every bit as good as a Martin costing twice as much.

5

been playing 7 years, never had a lesson. however, anytime you get the chance, sit in with people, or just jam with a neighbor. you can learn more in one night playing with others than you can in 1 year playing alone in your room. I cannot emphasize enough that you play with others, it’s the only way you can learn rhythm. how long til you’re good? honestly, you’ll never think (to yourself) that you’re any good. pick up guitar magazines in the store, they have a thing called tablature, so you don’t have to read music (but reading certainly helps).
Play til your fingers bleed, on any guitar you can get your hands on!

Once you learn some basic chords, go here for almost any sheet music
http://harmony-central.com

good luck!

We live in an age that reads to much to be wise, and thinks too much to be beautiful–Oscar Wilde

6

One more thing. learn every style you can. even if you like death metal. marty friedman of megadeath is classically trained, as well as randy rhoads. Chet atkins could wail faster than van halen. brian setzer gave lessons to kirk hammet. to be a really good player it takes a wide range of styles. when my friends come over, we jam rockabilly or swing, sometimes old school country. sometimes pantera. and when around my girlfriends parents, i’ll whip out a little flamenco. so have fun! one other thing to remember is you can have a lifetime of entertainment with the guitar and never ever step on a stage.

We live in an age that reads to much to be wise, and thinks too much to be beautiful–Oscar Wilde

7

Flyp, if you find anyone who wants to buy an assload of M:tG cards, lemme know? (after you sell them yours, of course) I have a decent collection I’d love to unload.

8

I’ve been playing guitar for . . . agh, 15 years now, and bass for 12. I’ve never had a music lesson, or a lesson on either instrument, and my playing has probably suffered as a result. But, as I aspire to nothing more than playing for my own enjoyment or in your traditional 4- or 5-piece rock band, it hasn’t been too difficult. If you really do want to get good, take the lessons.

The only thing I can add to whatever else has been said is don’t buy anything simply because it looks cool. Shop around, and get a feel for what you like, what sounds good, what stays in tune, what has good intonation up and down the neck, etc. There’s nothing worse than an instrument that constantly goes out of tune, or is 3-4 cents out by the time you get to the 12th fret. And make sure that the neck is comfortable for whatever size hands and fingers you have.

Right now, I’ve got a Yamaha acoustic-electric which sounds fantastic; a Danelectro electric (Noisy pickups, but I’m having that fixed. Stays in tune well for an inexpensive guitar.); a vintage Rickenbacker 4001 stereo bass; and an Epiphone “Viola” bass modeled on the Hofner made famous by Paul McCartney. I use all of them through a Fender Bassman 50w head with a 4x10" speaker cabinet.

"I prefer shows of the genre, “World’s Blankiest Blank.”

9

Thanks, everyone, for your help. (Actually, this is just a chance to move the thread back up the list.) If I get even a third of what the cards are worth, I should be looking at $1500. An acoustic wouldn’t be a problem, it sounds like.

keystream-I’m thinking eBay with a hefty reserve is my route. I want to unload the entire thing at once, though, so it’ll be tough.

Then he said, “That is that.”
And then he was gone.
-Dr. Seuss, * The Cat in the Hat*

10

I’ve been playing now for about 3 years. Everything everyone’s said so far has been correct in my opinion. I started out with a cheap guitar, and what a mistake that was. I would suggest getting an accoustic guitar that:

  1. Stays in tune. Nothing is more frustrating than having to tune the guitar after every song.

  2. Has low action (strings lower to fretboard). For a beginner it will make it easier to form barre chords.

I have a Yamaha accoustic electric that has low action, stays in tune, and sounds great. It was $450.

After I started getting good I dished out some cash for an electric.

I have taught myself. I don’t know how to read music but learned from tablature. At first, all I learned was the beginning of songs, because I didn’t know any chords.

The way I taught myself was:
1)The first thing I did was learn some basic chords. Some of the easiest that are in a ton of songs are G, C, D, A, Am, E, Em. (Once you learn G, C, Am, and D you can play Wish You Were Here pretty easily)

2)After that, I would work on barre chords. Learning barre chords was a huge stepping stone for me. It’s kind of hard at first, but once you get the strength in your forearms, it will get easier.

3)Learn the minor pentatonic scale. It is used for soloing in rock all the time. (The first solo I learned was Let it Be, entirely minor pentatonic in A)

4)Play with others. You’ll learn so much more.

Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.

11

I have been playing for 13 years. I have never had a lesson, but I can sight read sheet music and tab. I make extra cash giving lessons at night.

I would recommend starting with a nylon string classical guitar. It has the wide neck to keep you from “fat fingering” the notes. The nylon strings will build cauleses but won’t hurt your fingers so bad that you get discouraged. You can go to the music store or even a pawn shop (which I recommend for beginners, just in case they don’t like it they aren’t out to much money.) and get a decent guitar for around $200.00 or less.

If you already have some musical training/experience then you shouldn’t have any problem picking up on the guitar. It took me about 6 months before I felt comfortable playing in front of people, but then I was a 12 year old with no life and spent just about every waking moment playing guitar.

Thanks,

Daniel

12

Okay, I thought of a few more exact questions.

1)Callouses. Do any of you do any delicate work with your fingers? If so, do the callouses detract from that? I paint miniatures as a hobby, and have no desire to give this up. It requires a semi-steady hand and the ability to hold things by small edges. Can anyone give any opinions on whether this would be affected?

2)Due to surgery on my left hand, the tendons there don’t stretch as far as they should for the index finger. I can only bend it down to my palm as far as the meat of my thumb joint. Will this be a severe problem in forming chords?

Then he said, “That is that.”
And then he was gone.
-Dr. Seuss, * The Cat in the Hat*

13

First, let’s start with my credentials. I have a degree in Classical Guitar and have been playing many many years. I have played practically every style from grind core to classical. I would say in purchasing a guitar it depends on what you want out of it. I prefer acoustic instruments for the said reason that it does not use electricity. Also, it is easier to practice at night becuase it is not as loud as an electric guitar. If you are planning to spend about $1500 on a guitar and don’t want to play classical (that will get you an ok classical guitar…my good guitar cost $3500 and is still crap compared to what I would rather play on) you can get a pretty good guitar. My suggestions that follow depend on two things…what do you want to get out of playing in the long run and the amount of money that you have to spend. If you want to eventually play in a band buy an acoustic electric guitar (it has a microphone built in to pick up the sound), a decent midsized amplifier, and the requisite cords to hook the two together. To get a guitar that will sound remotely decent at this level plan on spending at least $750. (Guitars made in Spain are typically good…There is a good set of really good Mexican Classical guitars but overall the quality of the Mexican guitars is extremely poor) This is so the sound that you hear when playing un-miked will be listenable. There is nothing worse than blaming a crappy sound on yourself when it is really your instrument. For amplifiers, I would try to go with a name brand like Marshall, Crate, or Peavey. In my experience Crate has the best acoustic sounds and Peavey’s tend to distort your sound too much. I would suggest taking a friend who knows about music with you into every store you go into. Don’t be afraid to bargain either. I have bought musical equipment in the past for up to 75% off what they were asking because I was paying cash. If the person does not want to bargain about price, bargain with what he will throw in to sweeten the deal. Also, if they don’t give you want you think is fair, be prepared to leave. I would not suggest getting an Ovation or any of the plastic backed guitars. Granted they sound good initially, but they don’t age like a traditional acoustic guitar. This is what makes older instruments sound better. It is true for violins, it is also true for guitars. If you try to buy all the equipment at once you should at least have a hard case and some sets of strings thrown in for free. Make sure you get the case. If you have questions about specific guitar names I will be happy to answer them if you email me at paganbearcub@hotmail.com :).

HUGS!
Sqrl

Gasoline: As an accompaniement to cereal it made a refreshing change. Glen Baxter

14

On callouses, I play bass, which tends to build fairly good callouses (none of that namby pamby picking crap for me (when I pick up a 6 string, I invariably play it like Mark Knopfler (in style, not quality) because I refuse to use a pick even then)). I haven’t noticed that much interference when I paint minis, but then, I don’t do anywhere near a professional job at it.

On the tendons, from your description I don’t think you’ll have too much trouble. Hell, Toni Iommi (Black Sabbath) had his fingertips cut off and he still became one of the top guitar players ever. It may take some work, but if you have fingers, you should be able to find something that works.

http://www.madpoet.com
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

15

For gear, I’m gonna dissent with Sqrl. If you’re just learning, pick up either a Fender Squire electric or the equivalent in an acoustic. Don’t spend the $1500-$5000 on an instrument till you know what kind of playing style you prefer. My example is from when I started playing bass. I was in the Jazz band at school, so I bought a fender Jazz Bass. Well… as much as I love jazz, it’s not what I wound up playing after high school. And that bass just doesn’t sound like I want to sound like. But… I was learning, I didn’t know the difference. Until you get some experience, you probably won’t be able to tell the difference between a $300 guitar and a $3000 guitar. Then again, you may have more money than I to spend on expensive hobbies.

http://www.madpoet.com
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

16

Hell, Toni Iommi (Black Sabbath) had his fingertips cut off and he still became one of the top guitar players ever

WARNING >>> I don’t endorse this practice. if he want’s to cut off his fingertips, let him. But keep yours for a while.

We live in an age that reads to much to be wise, and thinks too much to be beautiful–Oscar Wilde

17

Hey MadPoet, we said basically the same thing. I advocate getting the best guitar you can afford especially for a beginner. I have had way too many students stop practicing becuase their crap guitar (read $80 guitar) didn’t sound good. I did not suggest that Flyp get a $5000 guitar. I suggested that he spend $750 (he said he planned on spending around $1500 hopefully) for a decent acoustic/electric guitar. (You can get a decent acoustic guitar or electric for about $500 but you will be hard pressed to find a quality instrument if you search for both in the same guitar for less than about $750.) For the budget that was given, I gave suggestions for the best quality type of instruments within a certain price range that will allow a lot of flexibility for a beginner.

Oh, Flypsyde, you don’t really need to take lessons unless you need to have structure in order to learn. For overall learning to read music, I would suggest Mel Bay, even though the music sucks, because he gives a good basic understanding of the fingerboard and notes. If you can already read a modicum of music I would suggest the Frederick Node period song books, (aka The Rennaissance Guitar, The Baroque Guitar, The Classical Guitar, and the Romantic Guitar). Those are pretty easy to read through, give you a large base of repertoire, and are just fun and interesting to play. If you are not interested in playing in the classical style but think that learning all you can is a good way to go, I would suggest Wilbur Styles “Everyting About Guitar Chords” and “Everything About Guitar Scales”. They give a pretty detailed discussion of functional music theory without getting into the more difficult part writing exercises. (I love part writing.) Also, with the chord book, you will gain an understanding on how the chords work rather than learning the forms by rote.

With all this said, practice with a metronome is crucial. Having a good sense of rhythm makes it easier to play with another person and more enjoyable to listen to. I hope that everything I have said is more clear now. I do not expect you to pay $5000 for a guitar unless you decided to become a full time professional, and then I would highly suggest it because the difference that a good guitar makes is phenomenal.

Thanks and HUGS!
Sqrl

Gasoline: As an accompaniement to cereal it made a refreshing change. Glen Baxter

18

Hey MadPoet, we said basically the same thing. I advocate getting the best guitar you can afford especially for a beginner. I have had way too many students stop practicing becuase their crap guitar (read $80 guitar) didn’t sound good. I did not suggest that Flyp get a $5000 guitar. I suggested that he spend $750 (he said he planned on spending around $1500 hopefully) for a decent acoustic/electric guitar. (You can get a decent acoustic guitar or electric for about $500 but you will be hard pressed to find a quality instrument if you search for both in the same guitar for less than about $750.) For the budget that was given, I gave suggestions for the best quality type of instruments within a certain price range that will allow a lot of flexibility for a beginner.

Oh, Flypsyde, you don’t really need to take lessons unless you need to have structure in order to learn. For overall learning to read music, I would suggest Mel Bay, even though the music sucks, because he gives a good basic understanding of the fingerboard and notes. If you can already read a modicum of music I would suggest the Frederick Node period song books, (aka The Rennaissance Guitar, The Baroque Guitar, The Classical Guitar, and the Romantic Guitar). Those are pretty easy to read through, give you a large base of repertoire, and are just fun and interesting to play. If you are not interested in playing in the classical style but think that learning all you can is a good way to go, I would suggest Wilbur Styles “Everyting About Guitar Chords” and “Everything About Guitar Scales”. They give a pretty detailed discussion of functional music theory without getting into the more difficult part writing exercises. (I love part writing.) Also, with the chord book, you will gain an understanding on how the chords work rather than learning the forms by rote.

With all this said, practice with a metronome is crucial. Having a good sense of rhythm makes it easier to play with another person and more enjoyable to listen to. I hope that everything I have said is more clear now. I do not expect you to pay $5000 for a guitar unless you decided to become a full time professional, and then I would highly suggest it because the difference that a good guitar makes is phenomenal.

Thanks and HUGS!
Sqrl

Gasoline: As an accompaniement to cereal it made a refreshing change. Glen Baxter

19

Another reason to get an electric/acoustic - there are some new technologies coming along that will allow you to plug your guitar into your computer and learn that way. You can do it now with an expensive MIDI guitar, but software just coming along now will allow you to do it with just a sound card. I have some excellent software for learning piano if you have a MIDI piano, and this stuff is coming out for guitar very soon. You’ll also be able to play and have the software transcribe your playing into sheet music.

20

Joining the chorus of guitarists; I’ve been playing for about 25 years. A nice steel-string acoustic would be my recommendation, with a narrow neck and a low action to make those barre chords easier. Get a nice guitar; I have a 20-year-old Ibanez I dearly love.

I agree with those who recommend taking lessons, at least for a while. Having a regular teacher will help you get past the inevitable plateaus in the first few months of playing. You should really learn to read the tenor clef and basic time signatures, just because it will make things easier if you know what you’re looking at. If you decide not to learn to read music, you can get a long way with just tablature; it’s very intuitive once you get used to reading upside down.

It doesn’t sound to me like your finger problem will cause any difficulties unless there’s a loss of strength in the index finger, in which case barre chords might be tough for a while. But a lot of the strength for those chords comes from the forearm, and I’m sure you’ll get there after a while.

I second SqrlCub on the Mel Bay books; if you don’t want to take lessons, they’re the clearest and most comprehensive beginner books I’ve seen. They’re also quite widely available. And yes, the music sucks :slight_smile:

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