Questions about gentiles and heaven in Jesus' time.

Questions regarding gentiles and popular believes in Jesus’ time.
From what I read:

  1. Except the social elites, general population pretty much loathed gentiles. They think gentiles are impure and corrupted. This far is correct?

  2. Could gentiles become Jewish?

  3. Jews at the time seemed to believe that a messiah will come to help them defeat the Romans. There would then be a prosperous kingdom for 1000 years. After that, the world would be destoryed and everyone would be resurrected to be rewarded or punished accordingly for eternity.

Am I getting this roughly right?

  1. What was the general consensus on how to be rewarded for eternity? Was being virtuous enough? or do you have to strictly follow all the religious laws?

  2. So Jews did not really have a concept for hell at the time?

  3. What was heaven called at the time? “Kingdom of Heaven”? But is this refering to the Kingdom that the messiah will create? What was the period afterward called?

  4. What was the Jewish view on afterlife of gentiles? Could gentiles possibly be allowed in heaven? Any way for them to be rewarded? Or, would they be allowed in but would be punished for eternity?
    Thank you all in advance for your help again. :slight_smile:

Sorry for asking all these boring questions…

Let me bump this for a single time.
Thank you all anyhow for your time though. :slight_smile:

1 I am not aware of any general anti-Gentile prejudice among Jews of the first centuries B.C.E. and C.E. Romans were disliked for being an occupying force and Samaritans were disdained for holding heretical/schismatic beliefs in regards to their sister-religion to Judaism, but there was not a widespread hatred or contempt for all Gentiles.

Aside from Palestine, Jews had large communities in Babylon and Antioch and smaller communities in Asia Minor, Libya, Rome, and Gaul, with Jewish merchants scattered across the entire Mediterranean basin.

There were religious restrictions regarding physical contact with some Gentiles in regards to certain situations, but that does not correctly translate to a wide belief that Gentiles were “unclean” or “impure.” (The rules in the Torah that dictated those practices have been translated into English as “unclean” and “impure,” but the words simply indicate a ritual taboo. Those words, in English, have picked up connotations that were not part of the original meaning.)

2 Anyone who chooses to follow the Torah may convert to Judaism. A very large percentage of the Jews outside first century Palestine, mentioned in the first paragraph, were converts. Judaism has never been a proselytizing religion that sought converts*, but it it welcomes anyone who is willing to put forth the effort to learn and practice Jewish ways.

3 You have mixed together different Jewish and Christian (particularly recent “end time” Crsitian beliefs). The Jews did develop a theology of the Messiah who would bring peace and harmony to the entire world after defeating the enemies of the Jews. In any given period, Jews who were being persecuted or harrassed would have tended to hope that the Messiah would come in their lifetimes to release them from their oppression, however, there was no specific belief that the Messiah had been foretold to drive out the Romans.

World destruction is a Christian belief.

4 The covenant between God and the Jews called for the Jews to observe the 613 mitzvot laid out in the Torah. While I am sure that there was the typical human niggling about what one might “get away with” in terms of which rules one might observe less faithfully, there was not (that I am aware) any serious effort to split hairs and figure out how many of the laws one could break and still get to see God.

Jews believed that Gentiles were held to the seven Noachide Laws**, (those laws given to all humanity by the time of Noah, long before the covenant at Sinai established the 613 mitzvot).

5 The views of Jews toward an afterlife seems to have followed those of their neighbors and conquerors, evolving roughly from a view that there was no afterlife, to a view of Sheol which, like the Greek Hades, was a gloomy place of no activity, no pleasure, and no real pain, where all the spirits of the dead collected, to a belief in a heaven for the good and a period of punishment followed by oblivion for the evil.

6 Heaven would have simply been whatever word in Aramaic is now translated in English as “heaven.” “Kingdom of Heaven” is more a Christian concept, although it probably arose among some Jewish writers in the hundred years, or so, before the life of Jesus.

(Regarding what Jews believed the period following the coming of the Messiah would be called, I am not sufficiently educated on that topic to know whether they even got as far as giving it a name.)

7 The Jews were equal opportunity afterlifers. There was never a period in which Judaism preached that only Jews could be “saved” in the way that some Christians and Muslims have expounded that belief.


  • I have seen contradictory evidence that there was a brief spate of proselytizing outside Palestine in the first Century B.C.E., but, as noted, the evidence given was contradictory and if it occurred it was a really brief period that was neither widespread in geography nor long in duration. The longstanding tradition is the Judaism does not seek converts.

** The Seven Noachide Laws (numbered for convenience; I have never seen any indication that they are given in a particular order):

The six broad categories of laws that God forbids all of humanity:

  1. Shefichat Damim: Murder is forbidden: The life of a human being,
    formed in God’s image, is sacred.
  2. Gezel: Theft is forbidden. The world is not ours to do as we please.
  3. Gilui Arayot: Incestuous and adulterous relations are forbidden.
    Human beings are not sexual objects, nor is pleasure the
    ultimate goal of life.
  4. Ever Min HaChay: Eating the flesh of a living animal is forbidden.
    This teaches us to be sensitive to cruelty to animals. (This
    was commanded to Noah for the first time along with the
    permission of eating meat. Genesis 9:1-17. The negative laws
    were imposed at the Garden of Eden.)
  5. Avodah Zarah: Idolatry is forbidden: Man is commanded to believe
    in the One God alone and worship only God.
  6. Birchat HaShem: Cursing the name of God is forbidden. Besides
    honoring and respecting God, we learn from this precept that
    our speech must be sanctified, as that is the distinctive
    sign which separated man from the animals.

There is also derived one positive category of laws:

  1. Dinim: Mankind is commanded to establish courts of justice and a
    just social order to enforce the first six laws and enact
    any other useful laws or customs.

This gives rise to the common expression of “seven” laws. According
to the standard computation, these break down into 66 specific rules that
Non-Jews are obligated to observe.

Maimonides called it the “Messianic Age” and I believe that is still what it’s stilled called in Orthodox Judaism. I don’t know if that apellation existed in the 2nd Temple period, though.

First, let me say I appreciate greatly for your assistance, tomndebb and Diogenes the Cynic. This detailed information really helps me a lot. :slight_smile:

Secondly, let me stress that I have no animosity towards Judaism. Anyone who think Judaism is bad, please go check out the history of all other major religions. In comparison, Judaism is almost saintly.
4. So be virtuous is not enough, they would still have to observe the 613 mitzvot.

Isn’t Avodah Zarah pretty much the same as Christina believe……. Because almost everyone except atheist are going down according to this law…………………….
5. 6.
So messianic age meant the earthly kingdom after the messiah came?

Heaven meant where all the soul will go and be rewarded or punished. Does this happen immediately or in some kind of last judgement in future?
So what does all those Kingdom of Heaven, Kingdom of God, etc in the New Testament meant? Heaven or that earthly kingdom?
The popular believe at the time, the Pharisees seemed to believe in resurrection. So when exactly would this resurrection come around? (This is why I said the world will be destroyed for everyone to be resurrected. Maybe a better word would be reset? Or does all the good guys just get resurrected into the earthly kingdom?)
Sorry, this is all so confusing.

Thank you all so much for bearing with me. :slight_smile:

The Noachide commandment we’re talking about forbids atheism, polytheism, and idolatry. You have to worship God, you have to worship only God, and you can’t make a statue of God and worship that.

It might be easier to understand what was going on in the Jewish community in the first centuries B.C.E. and C.E. is we use the analogy of Christianity in the 19th and 20th centuries.

While Christianity has always had schisms and heresies, they tended to be large movements that shifted whole populations to one belief or another. Then, in the 19th century, several different ideas were either invented or took on new life that did not lead to schisms so much as a growing plurality of belief within Christianity.

John Darby invented a new way to look at the book of Revelation, (dragging Daniel and Ezekiel and odd passages from Paul and Luke into the mix), to create the series of beliefs that we see displayed in stuff like the Left Behind fiction. (And even the people who believe the End Times are upon us have split into three separate groups, divided by what order they believe the Rapture and the Tribulation will occur.) Soon after Darby, discovery of ancient texts of the Gospels gave impetus to a long-simmering approach to evaluate Scriptureon the basis of literary analysis. This led to an effort to discover the “historical” Jesus which, in turn, led to questions about how accurate the Gospels were regarding miracles and led Bultmann to put forth the idea that even central mysteries of Christianity, such as the Resurrection, may have been expressions of faith and not depictions of real events. Faced with these sorts of challenges, a number of Christians chose to interpret Scripture even more literally than it had traditionally been seen. The increasing secularization of governments with the attendant greater religious tolerance led (slowly) to lower barriers between Christian religious groups, giving rise to the Ecumenical movement with many groups being more willing to share (and borrow) concepts from “competing” groups. Developments in science further challenged the literal accuracy of some biblical passages and new sciences such as psychology challenged the ways that some churches viewed marriage, homosexuality, and other beliefs that were wholly embedded in Christianity, but not central to its beliefs.

As a result, we can survey “Christianity” today and find people who hold beliefs ranging from an absolute position of biblical literalness to people who hold that the bible is a loose collection of nice sayings (with some frightening claims). We can find “Christians” who belive everything from the idea that God ordained that no one could have sex until marriage and that marriage must be a heterosexual union indissoluble before death to people who reject some or all of those assertions. We can find Christians who believe that Hell is a physical place below the surface of the Earth (with arguments whether people awaiting the Final Judgment are aware or not or even temporarily non-existent) and Christians who believe that Hell is living in the spiritual presence of God and realizing how badly they have sinned.

So if you were to say “What did Christians believe in the 20th century?” the answer would have to be “It depends.”

In the last 200 years before the destruction of the Temple in 70, Judaism had an analogous situation. (Don’t try to line up too many of the differences too tightly; this is just an analogy.)

The major centers of Jewish scholarship were located in Babylon and Alexandria, not Jerusalem, although there was a movement under way to “bring it home.” Meanwhile, the area around Jerusalem underwent several physical and psychological wars for the hearts of the people. When the Macedonian/Greek/Syrian Antiochus Epiphanes attempted to destroy Judaism as a religion, it led to the Maccabean revolt. However, since it was a war waged as a civil revolt, it led to calls for support from outside forces. Over the next hundred years or so, different religious and civil factions attempted to maintain power in Judaea while either relying on or opposing the interference of the outside Greek and then Roman powers. This led to internal religious politics getting entangled with the civil politics, leading to a number of different sects. (The Essenes, for example, were not simply some group of people with a mystical view of life; they were a group who believed that the Jewish priesthood had been corrupted in the internal strife and they were looking for the day when a leader/savior/reformer would come forward to wrest the control of the priesthood from the Hasmoneans and “restore” it to its legitimate state.) Meanwhile, the Jews of the Diaspora, mostly uninvolved with the revolts and politics in Judaea, were continuing to follow their own theological paths. To a certain extent, they did not even get heavily involved in the Judaean revolt that led to the destruction of the Temple in 70. (This separation came to a screeching halt in the revolt of 132 when the Roman emperor decided to assess a tax on the Jews of the diaspora to finance his suppression of that second revolt.)

So when we look at the Jews among whom Jesus lived, we have to consider that they might have been Sadducees (the ultra conservative wing in power that did not believe in the new-fangled ideas about a resurrection) or Pharisees, the liberals who did believe in a resurrection, but wanted to ensure that everyone practiced the faith correctly and so, when they were briefly in power, set up schools throughout Judaea to educate even the poorest boys. They might have been among the people who were chafing under Roman rule, writing apocalyptic tales of the defeat of the enemies of the Jews (in the tradition of Daniel and the Christian book of Revelation). They might have been people who shared some of the ideas held by the Essenes that the current priestly leadership was corrupt.

However, trying to figure out what “they” believed is more problematic.

After 70, and particularly after 132, it became a lot easier, of course. Much of the extraneous theological speculation that had developed when Judaism was free to express itself and explore different concepts was cast off when they entire people came under attack. This is a pretty human situation. The Catholic Church in Poland is one of the most conservative groups in the church, having suffered over 50 years of direct suppression.

It is possible that we can identify some of the answers to your questions, but it is also possible that we will get it wrong. Judaism after 132 is quite different in its explorations (not in its essentials) than Judaism in 67, and most of your questions have to do with theological explorations, not core belief.
I will say that the ideas regarding who gets “saved” and so forth have a decidedly Christian feel to them. It is possible that these questions were discussed in first century Judaism, (and their appearance in the Gospels indicates that some such belief was prevalent among some people, otherwise the words of Jesus would have sounded like gibberish to his audience), but how firmly rooted they were among the people or the scholars it is difficult to tell.

Thank you so much for your help, tomndebb and Captain Amazing :slight_smile: