Questions about Living Together: A Legal Guide to Unmarried Couples

In My Humble Opinion
1

Basic two questions: Other than a health care directive and naming my SO as my IRA beneficiary, what else do we need to do for the next 3.5 years that we are together but unmarried?

Backstory:

After cohabitating for some time, I came to the conclusion we needed some sort of legal groundwork for the future. I read NOLO’s most recent edition of Living Together cover to cover. Here’s what I’ve discerned we need to do:

  1. Health Care Directive. This is very important, also we need a copy on ourselves at all times.
  2. He should be named my IRA beneficiary.

The NOLO guide was frustratingly useless. It seemed the book was geared towards couples who are intentionally not marrying, rather than planning for marriage in the future. Stuff on couples with children and assets etc. We already have lists of what stuff belongs to which person; we’ve had to, as he’s moving away for 3 years. We don’t have a joint checking account but we do separate expenses every month. Our minimal assets include my IRA, a small moneymarket account he has and my shares in Apple.

We’ve been together 2.5 years, living together a year. We plan to get engaged this summer, but then he’ll leave for law school for 3 years. We want to get married after law school (he initially wanted to get married before his senior year, but I don’t want to spend our first year married apart). We’re looking at a minimum of 8ish months left of cohabitating (6-7 months till he leaves plus 3 winter breaks of 2-3 weeks) with a maximum of 13 months - 7 months till he leaves, then two summers breaks of 2 months plus aforementioned winter breaks). There’s also the time I’d be visiting him, but that depends largely on how far away he goes. So between 8-13 months of cohabitating in a total time period of 3.5 years till we get married.

So, my question is…what else do we need to do? What other legal guides are out there? What sort of attorney do you consult for this? Do we even need an attorney - the health care directive is spelled out in the NOLO guide. Do we need any special documents since we’ll be engaged and mostly living apart?

This is not a request for legal advice, this is a request as to how to go *about *seeking appropriate advice, including books.

2

If you have no kids and no significant assets in common, it seems like you have it pretty much covered.

Check the laws on “common law marriage” in your state…they vary widely, from Texas, in which 6 mths of cohabitation and/or documented consideration of yourselves as a committed couple equates to a legal marriage for property and other purposes to Oregon, in which common-law relationships are NOT recognized, regardless…I use these two states as examples since they are the two my late common-law husband and I resided in for our 23 yrs together.
We never ran into any problems EXCEPT that after he died, SS denied my spousal benefits (which was moot, since our two children got their benefits and I got benefits as custodial parent…six of one, half dozen of the other.)

I filled out and got 2 “witnesses” to fill out forms attesting to the fact that we’d been together “as married” for 23 yrs., provided evidence in the form of joint tax filings, joint ownership of bank accounts, property, a business/corporation, birth and joint parenting of 2 kids, etc… and they still rejected it. If WE didn’t qualify, I don’t know who would, but I was not in the mood to contest the ruling, as I probably should have :mad:

At any rate, there was never any other issue. When he was dying in the hospital, no-one even questioned my right as next of kin/wife (though I suppose if his family had objected, they MIGHT have).

Assuming you are not counting on either of you dying and/or would be terribly damaged (legally or financially, I mean) in such event, it seems you have it covered better than most. Maybe each have wills made up? 'Bout all I can think of.

ETA, hey, you are taking all the fun out of “living in sin”; Lighten up! :wink:

3

Excellent point. As I recall from the NOLO book, 10 years in PA made you common law married, except your relationship had to start before 2000. I’m not sure about the second part, but regardless, we’re not gonna hit 10. Jeez, 6 months in Texas? That’s nuts.

snicker I know, all responsible and such! Nah, neither of us would be “damaged” financially or legally. I thought about wills - I’ll do a basic one, but I doubt he’ll do a basic one. He’s got a much different approach to death than I do; it bothers him and he hates thinking about “what if”. He was extremely close to his grandfather (who passed, rather suddenly from cancer a few years ago) and I think it shaped his views on death. I understand it, though; my mother won’t go to any funerals or wakes at all after her brother’s death.

ETA: Missed this part!

Sorry to hear that happened to you :(. If you still got the same benefits as the custodial parent though, why did it matter (or were the amounts different?)

4

No, that’s the thing, the amounts were virtually the same EXCEPT for the fact that my son, now an almost 19 yr old college student and then a 15 yr old, no longer gets any benefits…SO, even though the benfits my daughter and I get went up after he graduated highschool, we still lost about $200 a mth.

FTR, my son, now attending university, as I am as well currently, still lives at home and is almost completely dependent upon me financially. He is attending, as I am curently, on scholarships, grants and small student loans. But that is neither here nor there as far as SS benefits go.

Had I been in the right state of mind at the time to appeal the decision, I’m sure I would have won full spousal benefits, but this was a month or so after he died and I was SOOO not in the right frame of mind to bother with an appeal (was about all I could do to keep the house habitable and the kids fed at that point :()

In retrospect, yeah, I should have, since it would have given us a few hundred more a mth for the next 10 yrs (my daughter is 11), but fuck it. Neither of us ever felt any need for the permission or approval of church or state or anyone else for our relationship…why start now? :rolleyes:

So the only reason it MATTERS is that it was ridiculous that they denied it, given all the evidence. I mean, why even HAVE the form and ask me to fill it out and provide proof and get my mom and sister-in-law to fill out forms? Waste of time. Just deny it up front and stop pretending that ANYONE can possibily meet the requirements you have.

I actually think the Texas law is far better than the Oregon law…the basic gist is that if you live together and present yourselves as married for 6 mths, then when/if you break up, issues of communal property and child support are automatically covered. In Oregon (usually much more progressive on such matters) such scenarios involve complex court cases and people can end up destitute and/or ripped off by former live-in lovers/spouses.

One case, some years back, was of a young father whose common-law wife and mother of their infant died tragically of a seizure in the tub and he was denied ALL SS benefits, even for the CHILD! :eek: The guy struggled to support both himself and the baby and retain custody in the face of this “oh, sorry, you weren’t legally married, so even though you were together for 5 yrs as a couple, lived together, had a kid together, are listed as the father on the BC, etc…you are shit out of luck” crap.

I think it is just common sense to recognize that after 6 mths (or a yr) property gets co-mingled to the point that hashing it out DVD player by couch is both impossible and a waste of the court’s time. Just split it up equally (or, if possible, take your shit and they take theirs) and get on with your respective lives.

In the case of kids, child support is a given, ditto. None of this “not my kid…one night stand…not the father” shit. Pay up or spring for a paternity test. The assumption is that the child is the natural product of a sufficient period of habitation unless proven otherwise.

5

Hey,**** lindsay****, apologies for the hijack, and we can take it to another thread if you think it warrants it.

Your quote above struck me as odd, and I’m genuinely curious about your reasons for delaying the marriage until after law school. The committment and engagement are obviously already there, and you’re going to spend that year apart whether or not you’re legally bound at that point. What is the downside for you of tying the knot at that time?

As to your original question, I don’t have anything useful to offer. My ex-wife and I lived together for about a year before we got married. We were only 23 and 22 at the time, so other than a joint bank account and a couple of old cars that had been paid for, we had no assets to speak of.

6

No worries on the hijack :slight_smile: I briefly looked into it awhile back, when he was much more firm about getting married during law school. If we got married while he was in school, it would essentially mess up two things: one, his health insurance under his mother’s plan (which specifically provides for single, unmarried children through grad school) and two, his financial need (which would be screwed up by my income/assets). While he could obtain health insurance from whichever university he ends up at, they don’t always cover the summers. More importantly, his mother’s plan has excellent dental and vision benefits. Paying for his teeth fixins’ alone without dental insurance would cost us a decent used car!

It’s not a big deal to me; I view the 3 years apart as a continued time to grow but also as a bit of a sad time. I look forward to actually renting (and even buying; Pittsburgh is so darn cheap) an actual house with him after he returns home; it wouldn’t strike me as so exciting to get married one summer only to have him leave again.

7

You might still want to consider doing so, depending on what your benefits would be after retirement. I don’t know your specific situation but I think there are surviving-spouse benefits if you’re the lower wage-earner or something.

8

You might want to check into this - I think someone may have explained something to you incorrectly. Widows and widowers generally aren’t eligible for survivor benefits until they reach age 60 unless they are caring for a child under 16. And it has to be a spouse that gets the caretaker benefit for a child under 16 - the child will always get his or her benefit , but if the child is living with someone who is not a surviving spouse that is the only benefit.

9

There are lots and lots of misconceptions about common law marriage. I went to law school in Pennsylvania, where I took a family law class. In that state, as in most states that recognize common law marriage, there is currently no “ten year” requirement. A court can consider you common-law married if you’ve been cohabiting for two days.

What is required, however, is that you live publicly as a married couple. You refer to each other as “my husband” and “my wife.” So, for example, posting on a message board that you “intend to get engaged” later is a pretty good indicator that you don’t meet this requirement. You have about a zero percent chance of meeting any kind of common law marriage definition.

That does not mean, however, that you would have no rights upon dissolution of the relationship. For example, if you had a messy break up, he might be able to sue you for palimony. I don’t remember whether Pennsylvania recognizes the concept – I don’t practice there. Or if you broke up and soon after got pregnant by another man, he might have a legal interest in the child.

For these reasons, it is sometimes a good idea for long-term non-married couples to see a lawyer about a “cohabitation agreement.” Google it. The type of lawyer you’d see would be a family lawyer. Call up some family law firms in your area and ask them what they’d charge for a very simple cohabitation agreement.

Not your lawyer, etc.

10

Obviously that doesn’t apply to us, but it does raise the question of “presenting yourselves as married”. NOLO strongly, strongly urged you not to do this, as it’s a form of lying. It also raises the simple question (in my eyes at least) why would (heterosexual) people pretend to be married if they’re not in the first place? Why not just get married if you want to call each other spouses? Or is this a case of one half of the relationship wishing they were married.

Meh, but it’s only for 7 more months of cohabitation. I don’t wanna blow several hundred dollars on it just for 7 months; I’m moreso concerned about securing our rights as a couple for the 3.5 years we’ll be unmarried but together (and physically apart).

11

I am a lawyer but I am not your lawyer, you are not my clients, this is general information not specific advice, etc.

Every person should have a will. If you want your property at death to go to the person you’re going to marry but you’re not married yet, then go to a lawyer and have a will drawn up to that effect.

12

Yup, already doing so, from earlier in the thread:

Thanks though!

13

Have you considered powers of attorney? Who do you want making financial decisions for you if you should become incapacitated? Who does he want to make those decisions?

14

This is where, for example, the couple wants to be married but doesn’t believe the government should be involved. Or where there is no access to government services. Or where the couple honestly didn’t know they had to get a marriage certificate. Or where the marriage started out as a joke or sham, but evolved into the real thing. There are tons of scenarios where people would “hold themselves out” (to use the legal term) as married without being legally married. But they’re pretty rare in modern times.

Don’t let the name mislead you. It’s only called a cohabitation agreement because lawyers are uncomfortable calling it a “boyfriend-girlfriend agreement.” It goes beyond literal cohabitation.

Again, not your lawyer, etc.