Questions About Running a Bar/Music Venue Featuring Small Local Bands

Factual Questions
21

Great to keep in mind. Even though it’s only really a very fine point in a scenario in which the broad strokes are key, you might track that the effect a GOOD “sound guy” has on the general experience of the performing band – and, of course, the effect of the band to the audience (including you as owner and music lover) – is paramount. It’s not uncommon for the worst sound guy ever to get paid more than any given member of the band for one show, and it’s really resented, bitterly, by musicians who normally don’t sweat other details of the club’s modus operandi. A good board operator/engineer is the #1 contact between the band and the club when it counts – performance/sound check time.

This is a fun thread – I’m learning a lot about some stuff I never would have considered before.

22

Me, too. Thank you everyone. I think I’ve found a good deal on a liquor license, but I can’t make an offer until I have an agreement on a venue, and the commercial real estate agents don’t seem to be working very hard this Friday afternoon.

Here’s another question on a slightly different topic. I should be able to raise the capital to purchase the liquor license, but not much beyond that. Will a bank make me a load with the liquor license as collateral?

(Obviously, please keep your fingers crossed that it doesn’t come to that and I can live a fulfilling life doing something that interests me rather than getting well paid surrounded by people I want to murder.)

23

Most people I know in the bar business, either had the capital, or have a partner who invested in the idea, so I have no clue on securing a loan from a bank.

I’ve heard it said before that most bars & restaurants fail in the first year, they are risky businesses - and it might do you well to find a partner who has bar & restaurant experience who can help you manage the place.

24

That’s been spinning through my head for financial and practical purposes, because it’d be nice to have someone to share the work, responsibilities and headaches with. However, I don’t know where to find someone A) qualified, B) capitalized and C) who won’t drive me nuts—and vice versa.

25

A few other things came to mind:
Most places I used to play in the city had a minimum of furniture. Maybe some of those high tables with stools and stools for the bar. That was about it. Mostly just open floor space.

One of my favorite places to play was just this basic bar - one long room with enough space for a pool table in the back (they’ve tarted it up since my day but the basic layout is the same). The bar ran along one side and a dinky flexy stage was on the other, maybe 15 feet away. The PA was just for vocals. The sound from where I was sitting (behind the drums) was awesome. Probably because everything was just bouncing back at us from the opposite wall. Other places with these huge systems didn’t sound nearly as good. I loved playing there. So putting a stage at the end of the room, while it may seem obvious, may not necessarily be the best place to put it. Plus, you just might want a pool table.:slight_smile: Also in the link is an events calendar, so you might get some ideas from that.

26

Hearing loss running in my family, so I had a custom pair of musician’s ear plugs made. Last night was my first time using them at a show, and I must say, the lower volume really made the band sound a lot better. I was getting better separation between the different instruments. INterestingly, it also made it much easier to have a conversation with the people I was with. (Not when the band was playing, of course, that would’ve been rude.)

27

Yeah, finding an investor/partner can be difficult, but it probably won’t require any more work than getting an unsecured bank loan to find someone. If you have a home you can put up against a small business loan, you might be able to bypass putting together a business plan but for any other type of loan or an investor you will need a business plan to get some start up capital.

Find out the costs of everything from decorating to stocking the kitchen & bar, to hiring staff, and other out of pocket expenses. Make sure you highlight what will make your venue unique, and how your market will sustain the business and even bring a profit.

Talk to other bar/venue owners in the same sort of style you want to do and find out as much as you can about the business to help you write your plan. You may find a bartender who socked away some cash & would like to go in with you.

In Canada we have the BDC which specializes in helping small business through loans and credit, you must have something similar? Maybe a Business Development Council or something for the city or state? If not, you can find out who owns some other bars and perhaps approach them with your business plan.

28

Dots, this is a great thread you have started here, as I have also wanted to open a small bar-live music joint for some years, though realistically for me I am still several years away from acting on my dream…

I know a fair bit about the live music business, but I also am aware there is MUCH I dont know, and some of that knowledge is probably only going to come thru the old fashioned “school of hard knocks” learn-it-as-you-go method, but hopefully I can go in with as much foreknowledge as possible.

How is the hospitality industry doing in Boston? Maybe being such a huge college town, with so many students with disposable income, the bars and clubs are still doing well, but around the country many places are really hurting for customers. Major music festivals attendance is way down, and big name touring acts are playing to half full arenas and amptheaters…

I wish you all the best, but I would really think long and hard if right now is an ideal time to start up a new business who’s success will depend on people spending thier discresionary money at a new place just getting off the ground, while old, established clubs are fighting to keep thier regulars coming in the doors.

Whatever you end up doing, I wish you all the best, and the next time I am in Boston, I will make a point of stopping in your spot for a cold one!!!

Matthew

29

Thanks for the support.I just finished taking a course at NYU on Food and Beverage Operations, and the consensus seemed to be that now might be the best time to get started. The cost of rents and liquor licenses are depressed, and by the time I’m ready to open my doors (after renovations and stuff) the economy may have turned the corner.

If you’re in town, be sure to stop by Janky Pete’s.*

*Karma’s going to strike me down for exhibiting confidence.

30

Wow, lots of posts today. Well, to answer an earlier question, we were a cover band and typically got paid $350-500 (5-piece band) for a bar (more for private parties). Less than $75 a head is not worth getting out of bed. I think once a place charged a $5 cover and gave us the door instead (100%).

The most typical arrangements are either a fee, or 100% of the door. Trying to have combinations is messy. As the bar owner you might want to plan all your economics around food & drink, and charge a cover to pay to the band, until you get a feel for what your traffic and revenue is going to be. I have played to an empty house once (a Tuesday night; they started to vacuum the floor during our second set :rolleyes:) and neither we nor the owner were particularly happy that night. But they paid us our $350.

31

Here Come Dots, I hate to break it to you, but you sound far too reasonable and unloathesome to make it as a club owner. :smiley:

32

First of all, ill take that as a complement

It’s funny because I’ve had a similar conversation with a couple of friends recently. I lie all the time, but I never steal and—like most people—project myself onto others and assume they don’t either. However, the books I’ve been reading make a point of warning about all the potential opportunities for theft in the bar business. It’s made me give extra cosideration for implementing portion controls, keeping strict inventory and developing rigid procedures for handling cash.

When it comes down to it, I think I’ll be uncomfortable firing my first employee, but each subsequent one will be easier and easier.

So, all-in-all, it’s been at the front of my mind that I need to exhibit a different type of rapport and demeanor with my employees that I have with the people I’ve previously managed.

I appreciate the warning and wonder if you’re available for weekly therapy sessions, because you nailed my psyche from one thread.

33

Here’s one way to do it: Calendar time for Buddy!. Go to 8:55 for the short version or 7:40 for the extended version. (NSFW)

What can I say? It’s Friday night.

34

boston sound guy chiming in with some disorganized reflections on my last 10 years working this scene

I’ve run sound, i’ve performed, and produced shows in boston. The only thing i can live on is being an audio engineer. In some club situations, i’ve been the only one making any real money. (musicians know they have to sometimes play just for the artistic satisfaction, but that’s never expected of the soundguy - we always get paid).

(My favorite paying music gig - Street performing: pay no worse than many clubs. no bookings, i play on my schedule, customers generally happier. I digress)

You will almost surely lose money.

I’ve heard the musicians all complain about getting shafted by the promoters/club owners. I could just write off the promoters as all jerks, but i have to ask - Why does that happen - is it something in the water? I’ve concluded that it’s because they’re attempting the near-impossible and will never be able to satisfy their many masters - musicians, audience, landlord, etc. So my point is, maybe you will be a cool guy, but you’ll be subjected to the same forces that cause clubs & promoters to treat musicians so shabbily.

Farm out! If there’s something you don’t know about - ask someone who has done it before (my guiding business practice)
If you don’t know about audio, then have an audio guy (I’m available :slight_smile: come in and install gear and maintain it, staff it, etc. Many clubs do this. some also subcontract their kitchen.

If you don’t know what bands to book, get someone who knows (and has done it before) to do your booking. I know one popular club where this is also the sound guy.

As you learn the scene better, you may decide to take these tasks on yourself.

there is a talent glut in boston. There are far more performers available than spots for them to play. The best ones get to play where they want and for good money. Then there is a vast ‘middle class’ with a huge range of quality that have to play for cheap. You want to find those good sounding middle class ones.

The reason clubs book 3 or 4 bands a night is because each one brings their followers - you get more patrons with little incremental cost. Bands understand that you stay in business by selling drinks.

Do you want to be around in 5 years? Be pessimistic in your financial forecast, and then cut back even more.

Good Luck!

(now if you’ll excuse my i have to go get ready for my sound gig tonight & my street performing gig tomorrow…)

35

Thanks for all the really useful replies. I’ve got two more questions:

  1. Is it true that to purchase a liquor license, I need to have a signed lease or sale agreement for the space I intend to use the license?

  2. Do I need to get a cabaret (or similar) license to play live music? If so, what does it cost, and where can I find out more information?

Thanks again.

36

my 2 cents : you can rent p.a. til you see how things are going, if you want to continue you can buy your own.

37

You’re on a tough road. It’s good that you’ve been reading. I’d add at least Kitchen Confidential by Anthony Bourdain (yes, the guy now on the Travel Channel or wherever). It’s more about the perils of owning a restaurant, but I’m sure the lessons apply to bars as well. His bottom line message is: If you’re not running a restaurant with a emotionless, professional, focus on earning money, then you won’t earn money.

I hope you already know that liqour licenses in Boston are famously arcane and full of insider dealing. You know that State Senator Wilkerson’s main corruption charge centers around a liquor license and related issues?

I wouldn’t even dream of owning a bar or restaurant unless I either had lots of experience in the industry or had a parter I could absolutely trust who had experience. Or both. Good luck (and let us know if you do open a place!)

38

My brother’s band was very small-time and they had an agent who helped them with the bookings. I’m sure you could even it up some other bar owners outside your immediate neighborhood and ask them how they find their acts.