I was watching a show on NatGeo last week about searching for Atlantis (yeah, I know :p), and towards the end of the show they were talking about the Azores. According to the show the Azores haven’t been extensively excavated or studied by archeologists. In addition, they were showing some structures that supposedly pre-date the discovery by the Portuguese, including several tunnels and cave complexes and what the show claims are pyramid structures. As in all shows of this type, the video looks convincing. However, one thing they mentioned in the show offhand sort of struck me, which was that according to the original Portuguese explorers there were no signs of previous human habitation on the island. This seems to contradict the claims of ancient civilizations and pyramid structures, however. That said, another scene in the show looked at what could only be a pretty ancient anchor (stone anchor with two holes), which I don’t think the Portuguese used by the time they were exploring the island.
So, what’s the straight dope on the island? I did some Google searches, but my Google-Fu seems weak…I keep getting more whacko links to stuff about Atlantis and haven’t been able to find much on actual archeological discoveries or surveys of the islands. Same with on YouTube (you can get some good documentaries sometimes on YouTube, but mostly it seems more wild stuff that is probably more interesting to most viewers).
So, to the questions: Are there ancient structures on the island that pre-date European discovery? Stone tools indicating a civilization once lived there thousands of years ago? Were the pyramid structures, tunnels and cave complexes build by Portuguese settlers clearing the land for agriculture or by this ancient civilization? Have they been surveyed and excavated by archeologists or left alone and forgotten as the show claimed?
From Wikipedia History of the Azores
“There have been recent discoveries (2010–2011) of Hypogea (structures carved into embankments, that may have been used for burials) on the islands of Corvo, Santa Maria and Terceira, that might allude to a human presence on the islands before the Portuguese.[8][9][10] There is no clear evidence that there were, in fact, other inhabitants on the islands, and archaeological investigations are only now commencing as to the age and relevance of these structures.[10]”
The link at the end of the quote is, unfortunately, in Portuguese.
Various structures in (on?) the Azores are compared to Megalithic structures in Atlantic-facing Europe. Preliterate people were known to pile up rocks in interesting ways–and also to make ocean voyages.
There’s apparently no historical record of the structures. That is, that the Portuguese either found them or built them. And no dateable artifacts or remains have been discovered. Sounds like archaeology needs to be done–if the resources are available.
If you go to Google Scholar then type in Azores pre-Portuguese you find a few more open access papers.
None of the archaeological work is particularly convincing or definitive. The C14 dating of one structure is 11th century, but the authors immediately skip to looking for far less proximate connections.
Dont want to be a snob, but they could have have received a lot tougher edit and refereeing, as we get a lot of fluff and supposition, rather than a small amount of tight and reliable knowledge.
But, having said that, if a National Geographic Channel documentary said today was Sunday, I’d get an independent opinion as well.
[QUOTE=MrDibble]
Tunnels and caves? On a volcanic island? I think there’s a mundane explanation for that…
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Yeah, for the tunnels that’s what I thought as well. The cave complexes they showed on the show, however, were pretty obviously human built since they had doors cut in and used piled stones for the walls and chambers. It was unclear to me (and based on the responses so far to anyone who has looked so far) whether they were built hundreds or thousands of years ago, however.
There was no mention of an underwater pyramid. What was on the show was more like these (didn’t read the article, just looked at the pictures which were similar to those on the show).
I believe that is the kind of cave we geologists like to call “a building”…
…unless you mean it’s a cave lined with other rocks?
Having doors cut in doesn’t mean anything, the Azores lava cave I linked to has steps cut into the entrance, doesn’t change its provenance.
Aah, the maroiças AKA “the pile of rocks we made so we can grow grapevines and other shit where the rocks used to be”. There’s no evidence that I know of that those predate Portuguese settlement.
[QUOTE=MrDibble]
I believe that is the kind of cave we geologists like to call “a building”…
…unless you mean it’s a cave lined with other rocks?
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Caves lined with rocks and partitioned by rock walls. Probably your lava tubes originally repurposed would be my guess. It wasn’t shown much, just part of a 2 hour show.
Some of the entrances did have steps up, but it’s the provenance that I’m asking about in this thread.
That’s exactly the question I’m asking. My own WAG is that all of the stuff they are showing was post Portuguese discovery and colonization (which was over 500 years ago now, so pretty old anyway). But there doesn’t seem to be any definitive proof about that one way or the other that I could find…which is why I asked here. Still doesn’t seem a definitive answer, so perhaps there isn’t one.
My own WAG is that all of the stuff they are showing was post Portuguese discovery and colonization (which was over 500 years ago now, so pretty old anyway). But there doesn’t seem to be any definitive proof about that one way or the other that I could find…which is why I asked here. Still doesn’t seem a definitive answer, so perhaps there isn’t one.