Another poster stated that the average CCW holder is better trained than police, and I would like to see if that could possibly be true. If you are a CCW permit holder would you mind telling us how much and what kind of training you have received? If you own firearms but do not have a CCW permit, feel free to tell us about what training you have had, also. If you just want to talk about how guns are a problem/evil/not necessary, could you please take it to Great Debates?
I had a concealed carry permit that I allowed to expire a few years ago. There was no training required, just some paperwork and two references.
After I got my permit, one of my references (a cop friend) gave me some training involving identifying your target, shooting for the center of mass, shooting until the threat was no longer a threat, etc.
I am a current CCW holder. Kentucky requires applicants to attend a training course. It mainly (circa 2006) covered the legal implications of concealed carry, but also the operation and maintenance of a handgun, and some basics of marksmanship. There was also a shooting test, which was very easy.
Since then, I have no formal training. My grandfather and uncle taught me the principles of marksmanship when I was growing up, and I have plenty of range time under my belt, but that’s it. No combat training.
I know quite a few people with CCW permits. A handful might qualify as “better trained than police”, as they shoot at IPSA events, three-gun competitions, and the like. The other 90% are somewhere between “occasional range time” (like me)and “never or almost never shoot their handguns” - the latter mainly being wives and girlfriends of guys I know, who got permits at their boyfriend/husband’s urging.
I have an Ohio CCW permit. I had to complete a 12 hour course, 2 hours of which was on a range, before I could apply for the permit. After I got the permit, I spent about 8 hours at range, including 1 hour with an instructor, before I actually carried a gun. In the 4 years since then, I have spent about 40 hours per year practicing at a range.
In general I doubt it is true. Ohio has reasonably strict requirements for obtaining your CCW. It is 12 hours of training which must include a certain amount of range time. The classroom sessions are divided between tech things like understanding how each type of firearm operates, and legal responsibilities. After you pass the course (everyone passes, it is open book) there is no further requirement.
The range sessions are pretty basic, since many people are first time gun owners. How to load and reload, basic stance, etc. Only a modicum of accuracy is sought, it is mainly on how to shoot safely. Everyone shoots a 50 round box of ammo.
Police at least have to qualify every year. One range operator told me he could always tell when quals were coming up, that was the only time he ever saw policemen practicing at the range.
Far better would be for shooters to get involved in practical defense shooting. I ran our club’s matches for 8 years. This is where you really learn to be comfortable with a concealed weapon. Drawing from concealment, using cover, shooting from awkward positions, tactical reloads, malfunction clearing, this is all part and parcel of the practical shooter.
I would think that people who shoot such matches several times a month are about as capable as a civilian is going to be. Of course peace officers can get involved also, but we only ever had a few that I know of. One was in Homeland Security, one was the captain of a government facility’s force and taught what he learned to his own men on their range.
Dennis
I have a CCW in Massachusetts, and if I’m better trained than a cop, that’s pretty terrifying. It was a one day class, mostly covering the legal requirements & ramifications of possessing a handgun, and less than an hour on the range.
Note that I was getting the permit so I could own a target pistol & shoot competitively. At the time, there was exactly one permit that allowed you to own and transport a handgun, and it also conferred CCW rights. I had/have no intention of carrying a firearm on my person, but legally I’ve got the license to do so.
Oregon here.
I’ve considered getting my CCW. I am a teacher and I do teach at a school that has had a school shooting, but would never even consider carrying on campus. I do a lot of hiking in bear and cougar country and would like to be able to carry a handgun should I choose to do so. I spoke to a few people that have a CCW, and the process is pretty simple:
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Take a CCW class. These are provided by NRA-certified instructors. They’re offered through community colleges, gun shops, hunting clubs, and a myriad of other organizations. IIRC the only requirement is that the instructor be NRA certified. I think this is akin to a first aid / CPR class: anyone who has the proper credentials can offer the classes.
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Go the sheriff’s office in the county in which you reside, fill out the application, pay the fee, provide fingerprints, and voila! You have your CCW.
There may be a few small details I’m missing, but that’s the gist of it.
Much like a first aid class, the CCW classes vary considerably. A friend of mine took one and she spent two hours in class. She stated they went over basic common sense stuff (don’t let kids play with your piece) and a few legal requirements (it must be truly concealed and not visible through your clothing or similar situations), and then the class finished with a laughably easy multi-choice quiz.
2 hours, start to finish, and she had her certification that was good enough for the sheriff.
Another friend took one through a local shooting club, and it was much more in-depth, and according to him they spend a considerable amount of time discussing the legal ramifications of pulling a gun, even in an obvious self-defense situation. His class lasted probably 40 hours, spread across a few evenings a week for a month or so.
In no way is there any actual handgun/shooting training involved or required in any of the classes.
While I suppose one could argue that there technically is a test one has to pass to get the class certification, for all practical purposes anyone with a grade-school level reading ability can pass the class if they find the right instructor. Additionally, none of this is on the down-low: the short afternoon classes are heavily advertised and quite popular—last I checked there was an 8 month (!!!) waiting list at the sheriff’s office to get the actual CCW permit due to an incredibly high demand. The aforementioned school shooting I suspect has a lot to do with that.
I am a current CCW holder for Oregon and Utah. One class served to obtain both permits. I had to complete a 4-hour course as outlined by Lancia, but this was a few years before the school shooting to which s/he is referring. All the class consisted of was basic instructions such as, “Don’t point a gun anywhere you don’t intend to fire it.” We were given the opportunity to handle some different guns and shown how to ensure each was cleared. I did learn that slam fire is a thing, and that came in handy once.
Otherwise, all actual hands-on training I received was done under my own steam. I have trained with personal friends who are either former military or deputy sheriffs who were range masters. I have also taken the Appleseed workshops, though they offer no instruction on hand guns. I am able to target shoot regularly on my own property with no concern for endangering others.
As I stated in the other thread, I did not feel the process was adequate to the responsibilities of CCW, and would not have been surprised if the instructors had simply asked me to hand over my box tops. Nothing about the instruction prepared me to take on an active shooter with an AR-15 in a public setting.
I almost never carry except when I am traveling alone across state lines where reciprocity is acknowledged. That’s the reason for the Utah CCW.
Thank you for all responses so far.
CCW holder for 17 years. Not a police officer. In addition to personal training and self-improvement, I have some formal training in marksmanship, tactics, self-defense, legal considerations, and maintenance as well.
Civilian Certifications/Experience:
Instructor Certifications-
NRA Pistol Instructor, NRA Personal Protection in the Home Instructor
Civilian Training Completed:
Florida CJSTC Police Academy Graduate, EMT-B National Registry,
Civilian Firearms Maintenance Certifications:
Glock Armorer
HK USP Armorer
HK MP5 Armorer
Colt Armorer
Relevant Civilian Employment Experience:
Gun Range Manager and Instructor, 3.5 years. Master Distributor for HK, Colt, Bushmaster, Simunitions, Point Blank, Sure Fire, CTC, ITT, and tons more. Being a Master Distributor has the benefit of receiving class room, range, and hands on training from the companies’ teams of instructors, such as the Sure Fire Low Light Tactics Course, or training in Less Lethal Munitions and techniques from CTC, etc.
Military Certifications/Experience:
US Infantryman, 15 Years; 3 Combat Tours
CQB Instructor
Master Combatives Instructor
All-Army Marksmanship, competitive shooter
Expert Marksman in rifle, carbine, pistol, and machine gun
Excellence in Competition-Pistol, 15 Leg Points
German Marksmanship Award - Gold
I think that’s about it. Combined with my undergraduate degree in Criminal Justice, I feel that I am at least better trained than the average police officer.
My state has “constitutional carry”, meaning that permits are not required. They are available in a basic and enhanced version, which requires some sort of training class. The enhanced
version allows carry in places prohibited to non-permit or basic permit holders. I haven’t obtained a permit. I rarely carry–usually only if I receive a threat from a particularly dangerous
guy in an especially heated case. Happens a few times a year. I have no formal pistol training. I grew up handling guns, including having a bb gun to use under parental supervision from
age 4. I can consistently put 6 out of 6 into a paper plate at 50 feet. That won’t win me any trophies, but is good enough for my purposes.
Ivylad has a CCW. Since he’s retired Navy he didn’t have to go through any additional training. In Florida you are required to take a training course.
I’m licensed by the State of Georgia, here it’s called a Weapons Carry License. No formal training is required, just paperwork (and a fee) at the courthouse and fingerprints and back ground check (and a fee) at the Sherriff’s office. That said, I , too have been around firearms all my life. My dad taught me gun safety and marksmanship. I owned BB/pellet guns at 5-6 years old and got my first shotgun at 10-11.
I guess it depends on your definition and purpose of “training”. I am probably as well trained in hunting based gun skills as an average cop, but if you’re talking urban shootouts, then by all means call them!
ETA - the license is not required for actively hunting with rifles or shotguns, but I always carry a handgun as well when I’m in the woods/field. That requires a carry permit.
In Texas, you have to pass the background check and take a CCH class, which involves demonstration on a firing range that you can control and use the weapon. You also have to take a test on the state laws about the weapon.
I’m also a former LEO. Back when I was a cop, our firearms training wasn’t much more than that (mid-70s). Officers these days are much better trained. I personally would like to see CCH classes offer additional training, including active shooter response, instead of just shooting paper targets. But anything is better than nothing.
I was a State Security guard, which did not allow me concealed carry. But after a death threat, I got a CCW. There was no additional training required but the Sheriff could do so.
I was told my State training was identical to that required for the real police. At that time, I went out target shooting a lot, and I knew several cops who never did. So I suppose I could *have been better trained than the average cop.
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I no longer have a CCW and no longer need one. The violent felon who issued that threat went back to prison and died there.
I am going to hazard a guess in that what the quoted poster means is that gun affectionados very likely target shoot much more than the *average *cop, who just does so to qualify once a year.
Actually, the topic was being prepared for crisis situations like the recent school shooting…but this thread is about any training in the use of firearms.
I have a concealed carry permit. I took a short class which included some range time. I rarely practice any more, although we have a range set up at home.
There are shoot houses where, as you go thru, targets pop up, some are bad guys (shoot 'em) & some are ‘victims’ (DON’T shoot 'em); I’ve never been thru one of those though I have killed some stationary paper(…& maybe some stationery paper too. ;)) I would think the former is better training for a shooter situation since I’ve never seen the paper shoot back.
As kayaker alluded to, PA only requires paperwork & money to get a CCW; no class required, don’t even have to have ever handled a gun before.
I’ve had 2 states for less than a year so not very long to be considered an expert. I don’t carry regularly as my job doesn’t allow it by statute. But I would rather have it legally available to me if I needed it that to have gone through that and not need it. 8 hour course with live fire. Renewal is 4 hours with live fire but they don’t have to take it again. Utah was “only” 10 minutes, but that is because you can use the overlapping material to qualify for both; their section mainly covered state specific laws (like they have campus carry we don’t). Aside from the “basics,” there was also a strong emphasis in that carrying only increases your responsibility and need to deescalate situations. In other words, people who are carrying have a greater responsible to not be testosterone filled assholes.
I also qualified for Oregon, but they require you to make the trip so I haven’t done any paperwork. I’ve considered it as I have family there, but the counties they live in are unfriendly to CCW and/or don’t have the resources to offer out of state people a face-to-face.
“Training” should be construed as an ongoing thing. Skills need practice. As far as actual shooting skills, many police aren’t “gun guys” and only qualify the bare minimum 1x per year, and in most department the requirements are not very stringent. I shoot when I can but more than the typical police training requirements.
On the other hand, your average LEO is likely better trained than the average bear on “tactical” skills. But again, this is something a lot of people get wrong: a CCW is for self defense (or including family). It does not and should not deputize you as a reserve police officer.
Just a thought: In my experience in Alaska, and in talking to guides in bear country, the best deterrent for wildlife of any kind is loud, unfamiliar noise. A personal alarm that shrieks like a banshee works extremely well, as does a small air horn, and either of them will cost you $10-15 or so. Plus, you don’t have to try to aim and hit something when the adrenaline is pumping.