Quit calling it "Gay marriage"!

Look, CNN, gay marriage is not a legal issue right now. Same-sex marriage is. I, a straight male, am not allowed to marry a man. My straight sister can’t marry a woman. Gay people can get married. A gay man can still marry my sister and I can still marry a lesbian with no legal ramifications whatsoever. Hell, a gay man can even marry a lesbian!

This issue has nothing to do with sexual orientation. It’s about sex. That’s it. Sure, the gay community is the one affected by this the most, but that’s entirely irrelevant. I’m not a woman, but I think they should vote. I don’t like black girls, but it’s my right to marry one.

So how about changing that graphic that’s up right now about Prop 8 banning “gay marriage”, CNN?

I don’t quite understand why “Same sex marriage” is functionally different, linguistically speaking, from “gay marriage.” Can you expand on that a bit?

Because “gay marriage” implies that gays are being discriminated against. Which they’re not, since they’re still allowed to marry people of the opposite gender. Which they’d do, if they weren’t so stubborn about being gay all over the place.

Cliff notes: Chessic Sense is a retard.

They can’t marry* each other*, which is sort of the problem. Who cares if they can have some mocked up phoney baloney marriage with some person they don’t give a shit about?

No.

I imagine it’s because the details of the sexual acts between partners are not specifically relevant to whether they can marry. Which acts will or won’t occur might be assumed by many, but it is not the acts themsleves, or their classification as gay or straight, which do or don’t make the marriage possible.

Bi folks who decide to marry a same sex partner prefer the term same sex marriage as well since it covers their situation better.

For a further nitpick, it’s not about sex but about gender.

These aren’t “gay” marriages becuase they are not “gay” relationships. It’s a couples-based categorization.

No, again it’s about relationships. You date, fall in love, establish a relationship, and then you want to move it to the next level and make it legal.

They’re being discriminated against as couples. Their romantic relationships are being denied the legitimacy that straight couples enjoy.

It’s not properly called “same sex marriage” either. It’s same gender marriage. For what it is worth.

Damn. Pipped by Antinor. :frowning:

I’m not following the analogies here. I think you hurt the black girls’ collective feelings, though.
(What’s that?) Oh, I’m being told the black girls wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire.

While there is room to argue your point, not only do I think it is meaningless, but I think it’s actually potentially harmful to the movement to make a distinction and, as you seem to be in favor of it, I would imagine you’d see it as a bad thing.

First, I think it’s a meaningless distinction for reasons others have covered above. Sure, gays can marry, so gays being able to marry isn’t the issue. One could also easily interpret it to mean a marrige in which the gayness (for lack of a better term) is a defining characteristic; that is, a man marrying a man is undeniably a gay marriage, while a man marrying a woman, even if one or both is actually gay, is in line with a traditional marriage and therefore not necessarily gay; That is, the first is a type of marraige in which a gay individual may be interested, while the second probably isn’t, and I don’t think it is misleading to call the first type of marriage a gay marriage. Further, the term gay marriage it is already understood by most people to refer to men marrying men and women marrying women; I imagine that for most people, that would consider the terms gay marriage and same-sex marriage to be synonyms.

More over, same-sex marriage is a longer and less direct way of saying it. If I see two guys holding hands, I don’t think of them as a same-sex couple, I think of them as a gay couple or a homosexual couple, or other similar terms. That is, I’d think that using the term same-sex, if it does anything, is actually more distant than gay because calling it gay marriage helps drive home to someone who identifies as gay that it is a problem that is relevant to them. And, while this isn’t my personal perspective, I could even imagine to those who oppose it for ickiness, the term same-sex probably drives home the ickiness more because it emphasizes the sex part of the relationship while there’s plenty more to a marriage than sexuality.

That said, I have even heard arguments very similar to the one you’ve made being used in opposition. That is essentially that banning gay marriage isn’t discriminatory because gays can get married now, just like everyone else.

But really, if you are in favor of legalizing it, this is just a big fat waste of time. Make your arguments about women’s suffrage and interracial marriage (the latter of which I think is a particularly relevant historical analogy), but arguing over the term (unless it were something offensive or counter-productive like “fag marriage”) is just adding noise, which dilutes the saliency of the points being put forth by its proponents. And really, it doesn’t even matter, because no matter what you call it, it’s still icky to people who think it’s icky, it’s still a sin to many to those who believe in legislating morality, and it will still destroy the family unit to those who believe that.

Neener neener. :wink:

I think same-sex marriage is the right term. If you are biologically a man, but cross-dress because you identify as a woman, but haven’t had gender-reassignment surgery, you are are legally allowed to marry a (biological) woman, who is a different (biological) sex from you but is the same gender as you. And the law doesn’t care, in such an instance, whether you are straight, gay or bi, because your sexual preferences don’t come into the equation.

However, gay marriage is almost as good a term, because most people wanting to marry a partner of the same sex identify as gay.

Why is this? So far as I know, the state only requires that the intending spouses be of different anatomical/biological sex (either as this was at birth or at the time of the marriage, depending on the state, IIRC). No state inquires into their psychological experience of gender or performance of sociological gender rôles, so far as I know.

Same gender marriage? What has grammar to do with this? Nouns are getting married now?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but as I understood the usage of the terms sex and gender by the transgender community, which seems to pretty much get lumped in with the gay, lesbian, and bisexual communities, was that sex refered to the biological differences while gender refered to social or mental differences. So unless the terms are used differently in the gay community, I don’t understand why gender is relevant at all. That is, two people of the same sex but opposing genders cannot get legally married, but two people of the same gender but opposing sexes can.

I also don’t see why it’s different for bi folks. If a male bisexual wants to marry a woman, he can, but if he wants to marry a man, he cannot. Perhaps from how it actually is experientially, a bisexual man marrying another man is different from a homosexual man marrying another man, but from a legal perspective, they’re indistinguishable. Even more, if that marriage is monogamous (which is generally the expectation for most people), even if one or both persons involved is truly bisexual, even in practice, I don’t see any real practical difference either from gay marriage. Either way, if gay marriage is legalized, it would necessarily follow that bisexuals could also marry someone of the same sex if they so chose, so I don’t see a meaningful distinction in prefering one term over the other.

Please see this as a legitimate request for fighting ignorance. Can you please clarify what I may be misunderstanding?

:rolleyes:

Quit using the word “Sense” in your name until you actually start making some.

Well, verbs go around “conjugating” all the time. Some of them are “active” and some of them are “passive”. :eek:

This bi folk disagrees.

I only really respect verbs in the imperative mood. Well, maybe the ablative. But any other mood–PARTICULARLY the subjunctive–is far game for abuse, as far as I’m concerned. Why, just this morning, I caned the vocative mood till it wept like a Cardiffian, and it hadn’t done anything wrong at all. I was just being pissy.