"Race doesn't exist" and affirmative action: Can't have cake and eat it too

I am not blinded at all by privilege, as I am one of the few who knows a lot more in depth than 90 % or so of the Aussie population for sure, as most would not know truly jack shit, our leaders and all the PM’s and Premiers we have had bar one premier, are just so full of shit when it comes to Aboriginals, as they have never lived with them and all they do is pander to white people who live in the city’s with foolish idiots ponce like views, and the other black races could not give a shit about our Aborigines at all.

Well I only went to a school out the bush bro and I never said I was not against racist but only against racial prejudice, all the Aboriginal people I have known are full on racist as they hate most whites and other types of blacks.

If them words are insults, what are they if they are in fact true hey !:p;)

Communist ? do you think such a thing just vanish into thin air do you, or Nazis for that matter, no the love for such is still is around, as I have talked to many people who love communism about the place even today and met Nazi type pricks.
All thou the communist have evolved from what they once were, they still are essentially just a backward left wing bunch of thugs and morons that they always were, driven by radical nonsense and narrow minded short sighted cunning with a devious pond life existence and always mainly lazy dolt who can only work for a wage with an huge inferiority complex.

I mentioned radicals, well there are also the same sort of pond life bunch of radicals on the extreme right wing what act in the same way, as the radicals of the left, but there is a difference, but not that much really in there personality, as they both work to con the people in the central position of both wings, as such people in the centre do not contain such madness of the extreme types, they are mainly open to being fooled by such peoples intent.

I see you so far as a cunning type and a lefty and you don’t fool me one bit, PCness may of been coined when you say, but the fact is the same technics are in play and are just done in a Fabian way.

I see You bag my Christian point down, like a good extreme lefty always does, don’t understand grace do you ? if one does not have Grace, one is always a dictator type that loves to manipulate others and try twist words around to make themselves look smart, but don’t they get not half offended on little things, making mountains out of mole hills and I thought that only fools get offended easily.

No I don’t like Political Correctness at all, and I say it’s a pox on society not to mention the biggest load of nonsense and just total madness brought about to in power just pond like trash, who have a yellow streak running down there back a mile wide and most people I know of my age say the same as I do, funny that hey !
It’s only the young from about 40 yo down that are brainwashed with such simple minded utter nonsense, there are older ones about but they are mainly school teachers and government workers that have lost the ability to think for themselves and yes I know some of them who say it’s a fact. we are all f ing drones here mate.:stuck_out_tongue: that’s what they say :smiley:

Yes, it’s funny how minorities get offended by being compared to rutting dogs. Those people can be so sensitive sometimes.

Here in my neck of the woods there an ‘old school’ saying.
"When you’re pointing a finger at me, there are three pointing back at you "
Here they were called slaves /property, there they were called 'creamies ’ as individuals and ‘The Stolen Generations’ in general .
I’m not all ‘worked up’ , just putting in my two cents.

I remember about a documentary about civil rights where a nun that was marching with Martin Luther King was beaten by guys that claimed at first to only just think like you do. In reality there is a lot I have seen in my experience to realize that guys like you will decide to dismiss whatever Christianity you have when things get serious. And that is because the guys who beat the nun were once students of her.

She realized on camera for the documentary that she and other educators from private religious schools felt sorry that they had not educated their students properly indeed.

Remember: prejudice is related to pass judgement of others, and even Christ had words against that too.

Well, besides noting that you do continue being insulting to others that are not communist at all, regardless of your mistaken beliefs I do not see a problem on being morally correct, and scientifically correct. That you confuse that by being “politically correct” is your problem.

More “ponce”? I’m not sure why you’re self-censoring by not explaining your use of the term.

It’s hard to make out because of his delivery, but I think he was trying to say he was using ponce as a synonym for ostentatious.

That would be an unfortunate use of the word. “Ponce” is generally used to refer to a stereotypically fey or camp or feminine gay man (or action supposedly reminiscent of same); “poncing around” and so forth. Using it to mean “ostentatious”, so far as I know, would be linked through that meaning. It would seem something like saying someone “jewed you down” and then explaining that actually all you meant was that this was a particularly hard bargainer.

Perhaps the meaning is an entirely different one in Australia, with separate roots.

You dont think there have been people who sold very real poisons, told fortunes and claimed to put curses (which may have worked thru the power of suggestion) on others?

If a person claims to be a “witch” and sells a poison for me to kill a foe- isn’t then 'witchcraft" real?

Magic isnt *very *real, but it can work by the power of suggestion.

“* Pure *races, in the sense of genetically homogenous populations, do not exist in the human species today…”

Italics mine.

Many people are border cases, they might identify as one or the other or mixed. But not all people are that mixed. Coroners can sometimes tell a "race’ from just the bones.

So, no, there is no one strand of DNA, no one marker that is the “bright line” between race A & race B. “Pure” races do not exist. That’s not the same as saying “race” has *no biological characteristics at all. *

So, since there is no "bright line’, race can be hard to tell, thus we use “self identify”.

There are statistical distributions of all biological characteristics, but that does not make them racial identifiers. I know people from India much darker than Larry Wilmore.
Identifying race by characteristics would be like a data mining problem of clustering 20 or more dimensions of characteristics into 3 or 4 clusters. Any characteristic you choose is going to be all over the place. Plus, where would you put Obama? Socially, we know, by his choice, but classifying him as one race or another biologically is clearly going to be wrong.

Going back to the OP, perhaps we can say that while scientists and other intelligent people know that race isn’t biological, bigots don’t know this. Since bigots unfortunately have power (and had more in the past) AA corrects for it.

You are accusing me of being a smart ass and then you post this nonsense?
Half-breed and half-caste are only “true” for people who seek to denigrate other people by claiming that there is something wrong with their parentage.
Whore is only “true” if one is referring to a person who provides sexual services for pay, therefore your usage was in no way “true.”

Beyond that, the claim that a true statement cannot be an insult is the sort of silliness in which people engage when they want a license to insult others.

And you thus prove my point. Your fascination with calling every person or idea with whom you disagree cannot possibly be referring only to “lazy dolts” suffering from “huge inferiority complex[es]” because you toss the term at every person with whom you disagree, regardless of their intelligence or their industriousness. It is simply a random insult with no meaning.

Really? The Stalinists and Nazis used language to denigrate people and to create stigmas that would prevent them from being treated respectfully by their fellow citizens, (rather like your persistent use of the word communist). To the extent that “PCness” exists, it insists that people be identified by more polite terms rather than using insults. That is the very opposite of they way that Stalinists and Nazis used the language. Your claim is bereft of facts or logic.

If this is some Aussie slang, I am unfamiliar with it. If you mean that I have cast aspersions on your religious beliefs, I have not. I simply noted that you have dragged a religious belief into the discussion without providing any context for it. I am a Christian and I am well aware of Grace. Nothing I have posted provides a reason for you to accuse me of being unaware of it. As to your ridiculous claim that I am a “lefty,” that can only be based on some non-factual belief system of your own. I am not even a “lefty” in the sense that it might be used in the “right” tilting U.S.

That would seem to identify your position in this discussion. You post absolutist statements that are not supported by any evidence, then dictatorially insist that they must be accepted as true. You have made numerous statements about race that are contradicted by facts and you have met several efforts to get you to provide evidence for your beliefs with declarations implying your mental and moral superiority. You use insulting language, (that you twist to claim is not insulting), and you give every indication that you are taking insult at the mere presentation of a discussion. In other words, you seem to be describing yourself, with or without the presence of Grace.

So, you still refuse to explain why you hold nineteenth century beliefs regarding race without providing any reason that anyone should accept your beliefs? (And I am well beyond the age of forty and have never been a teacher or government employee, so, like your ludicrous claim that I am a “lefty” you are simply imposing your personal prejudices on your beliefs about my person.)

I will ask once more: do you actually have a definition of “race” that can be justified by science and not prejudices or odd beliefs with which you were raised?

However, the word “race” has taken on meanings that are not supported by science. A person’s bone structure, DNA, blood factors and other traits may be used to place them within a specific population, but only non-scientific lumping and splitting of a social nature assigns any given population to a specific race. That is why the number of races differs between three and sixty among people who wish to use biology to identify race: the criteria used to assign races is societal, not biological.

I am not even sure what is meant by “race has ‘no biological characteristics at all.’” Certainly the characteristics of different populations are expressed through their genes, (biology), but the lumping and splitting of multiple populations based on arbitrary factors, (usually of appearance), destroys any claim that there is scientific/biological support for the notion of “race.”

(bolding mine)

:confused:

I remember my Dad reversing his car with a trailer out into the road and this dude came around the corner and then went over to the other side of the road behind the trailer, my Dad went off, you f ing Ponce !

He and his generation used the word poncing about a lot and the word poncing about was used for an fool being a dolt playing around not doing his job diligently.

My Dad and his generation used the term, playing silly buggers a lot and it had only to do with being a twit.

The word Gay was never used and considered just moronic to use such a word that had no context worthy, but the southern States use a lot of words different to the northern States, but nowadays it’s all changing as so many of the south have come up here corrupting our ways.

One thing that gets on my goat with the southern younger mob is the way they use words flippantly like, are you winning ? when you are working, it’s just nonsense and moronic when I am the contractor, maybe to a wage earner it sort of ok, but to me it’s an insult from a simple minded nub skull that’s just being a useless comment that is not worthy of responding to.
I know what they are on about, but such is a trashy comment.
And the word ‘too easy’ ! it’s a trashy comment that means nothing in reality, you give a task and get back this moronic ‘too easy’ comment, the task is not easy at all. it’s a form of silly rudeness, I my day you jumped to it directly with no childish winding comments, I am like how are they going to cope when they start there trade, they have no hope of control over themselves, so how could they run a business and that’s why so many trades are just hopeless nowadays and people calling labours tradesmen nowadays :o :smack::rolleyes: it’s political correctness bastardising everything they are to scared to say what is what, I don’t give a toss who I offend because I am the Capitan of the ship and bullshit does not wash with me as I can’t afford to be playing silly buggers.
I had this bloke that was ranting on about what his name is, was all important above all things that you called him by his name, to me he was just poncing around and I don’t give a rats about his name, but that the job he does is first and foremost in his mind.
Someone wants a job done and they want quality, I have never come across anyone who is paying for a job want to put up with nonsense in the 42 years that I have worked.

Commodore is paranoingly referring to Fabianism.

Being scared of violent revolutionaries is one thing, but you have to be one tightly wound person to fear those who preach slow reformation.

If there is no such thing as race how can one point out that another is racist.

It’s as easy as everyone knows there are different races and you are the first I have come across that is making out that such is not true.
I gave you an account of it, my mate says he is a full blood Aboriginal and another says he is a fool blood New Zealand native and the thing is they know it and I know it’s true, I can see the difference it sticks out like dogs balls.
They have there own race and culture for crying out loud and anyone who rejects that, must be a new age PC clown and a communist, because the communist game is to put everyone in the same boat.
And you call me prejudice :rolleyes: talk about ignorance !

Did the Jews have Grace ? no they did not, they had the Law and it was not until Jesus Christ that Grace abound.

I am on about Grace Lordship Salvation, it’s a gift an interior strength infused by God a supernatural gift of God to the intellectual creature.
God enlightens the mind strength and will.
Habitual or sanctifying grace becomes a friend of God.

I am not on about worldly grace poise as Satan deals in that.

You are so possessed with claims of offending others that you can’t see the forest for the trees.
A whore can and does represent such as the media whore in the light of what it does, it comes across as something to be admired or at least try’s to, but the proof is in the pudding, it’s a payed money grabbing good for nothing that works to mislead and is not to be trusted or respected.

The thing is that political correctness has no foundations and just changes with the trends, it’s a whore that works to mislead, working on poor minded fools that will fall into it’s traps of nonsense making out how nice it is helping you, but it’s like a drug that sods get trapped into and it’s language will change once it becomes more dominant, I said it’s fabian in it’s conduct, so it has an agenda down the track it’s working for.

I had this prick come up to me on voting day and he was a member of what they called socialist party, he wans spinning all the rot you are about, how they are totally opposed to way the nasty Nazis and communist worked, they oppose violence and then he said we are going to destroy capitalism ? oh boy ! freedom loving non violent and all fully immersed in PCness they want to take away so many freedoms so they can have there way with all others, plus they have no morals worth jack shit when one looks into it all, oh yes abortion on demand up to 9 month the right to kill yourself regardless it’s your right ! you maybe feeling depressed one day :dubious: oh don’t look down on criminal behaviour or lazy people because all people are the same, no they are not the same at all I say and some clown comes the heavy with me for saying such.
It’s always the lowest common denominator the PC mob look to as the way.

This is just dumb. It is a word game that has been tried on many occasions, including in the OP to this thread.
Note: at no time have I ever said that there is no such thing as race. Why would you open your question by basing it on something I have never said?

The point that I have made on several occasions is that in the nineteenth century, people looked at different human populations and tried to lump them together using the word race (which was an earlier word indicating all the people in a tribe descended from one common ancestor–a meaning that you have employed, but which has nothing to do with this thread).
The groups identified as races were collections of different populations with similar features that were lumped together based on erroneous assumptions. In addition to lumping different populations together as races, the people who named those races went further and assigned moral values to those artificially constructed races, calling some of them lazy and stupid and others industrious and smart.
Based on the belief in such races and the imagined traits assigned to them, people decided to use them as categories that allowed one group to persecute another group. That is racism–assigning values of quality based on invented similarities and differences.

In 2016 you have never heard that science has rejected the notion that there is a valid biological separation of humanity into races? You must spend most of your time ignoring anything to do with human science. That discussion has been going on for around forty years among scientists and even large numbers of lay persons have been involved in such discussions for well over twenty years.

Multiple points:
[ol]
[li]First: you are not using race in the way that is normally used, today. You are using an older definition of the word in which it is used to identify smaller groups of related people. [/li]In science, such groups are now called populations because the word race was used erroneously by people who divided the world into three groups, (e.g., Caucasian, Negroid, and Mongoloid) or four groups or a dozen groups and then wrote treatises to falsely describe them and even laws to govern them based on those socially created “races.” (Note the race laws of the United States and the more recent race laws of South Africa.)
If a person talks about sub-Saharan Africans or Europeans as each being one race, that is the more common usage today. You, yourself, appear to reject that notion with your claims that Maoris and Australian Aborigines are different races, so you seem to have been pitching a fit in this thread to no purpose without even understanding the discussion.

[li]Second: that you resorted to name-calling (“PC clown” and “communist”) when you did not even know what the actual discussion was about does nothing to make a case for your beliefs. If you are not even talking about the same thing as other posters in the thread, it is more than silly to post abusive language defending your point of view when it is not even the same topic as the thread addressed.[/li](And in this context, you demonstrate that when you use the word “communist,” you are not even talking about Marxism or its many dependent systems, but are simply using a word about which you have negative feelings, in much the same way that some college kids call everyone they don’t like “fascist.” The word has no definition when you use it except that you don’t like something. So since it is nothing but a multi-purpose insult, I can recognize that it has no meaning in future discussions with you.)

[li]Third: I have not called you prejudiced and I would prefer that you not make false accusations against me. [/li]Everyone has some prejudices and I noted one of yours, but I have not described you as a prejudiced person.
[/ol]

meh
This discussion is not about salvation, but about word usage and you have demonstrated that you are unaware of the words being discussed, their meaning and history.

I have no idea what prompted this meaningless rant, but it has nothing to do with me or this discussion. I am not a communist or even a socialist. I am Christian capitalist. However, I do prefer that words be used in ways that make sense.
This discussion was whether there could be racism if race was not real.
My response to that question is that
[ul]
[li]Race (as it is typically used to mean Europeans or sub-Saharan Africans, or East Asians, not in the older sense of culturally bound groups of people as you have used it), does not have a biological foundation, but is a social construct. That is because, while we can identify populations within humanity, every effort to claim a biological race is based on social ideas, not on biology. If biologically based race was a real thing, then scientists would tend to agree on who was a member of which race, but they do not, coming up with all sorts of different numbers of races.[/li][li]Since people have divided up humanity using socially determined criteria and labeled those groups “races,” it is clear that when they use those groups to oppress or exalt one or another of those groups, based on their definitions of race, they are engaged in racism.[/li][/ul]

Do you think there is such a thing as a Buddha? If not then how can one point out that another is a Buddhist?

Do you think there is such a thing as human perfection? If not then how can one point out that another human is a perfectionist?

Do you think there is such a thing as a ghost. If not how can anyone point out that another is a spiritualist?

Do you think the world was created by a rogue archangel against Gods wishes? If not then how can one point out that there another is a Gnostic?

These things are beliefs. Whether they have any basis in reality is irrelevant to whether people believe them.

That’s the whole bloody point.

Oh well, if “everybody” knows it, it must be true. Right? Because “everybody” has never believed stupid things or wrong things.

Am I right?

In the days when everybody knew the world was flat, the world really was flat. Right? After all, everybody knew it.

My mate says he is blonde. And his girlfriend says she is a redhead. And the thing is they know it and I know it’s true, I can see the difference it sticks out like dogs balls.

That makes redhead and blonde races, right?

Why don’t you just answer the questions put to you?

We’ll start with something simple: Tell us what you mean when you say “Race”.

Can you do that for us?

So your evidence that they have their own race is your claim that they have their own race. And your evidence that these races are not cultural is that they have their own cultures.

A persuasive argument indeed.

No, the Jews had grace according to my god, the FSM. He is more powerful than your god and overrides him. You are wrong to suggest otherwise, but the FSM won’t punish you because he is all loving and doesn’t punish people for their shortcomings. Which once again proves his superiority.

Oh, so not like the Christian religion then. That is constant and unchanging. To this day it endorses slavery, rape-in-war, puts a ban on women having uncovered heads in church and demands all services take place in Latin.

Just as it always has.

Am I right. Because it wouldn’t endorse those things at one time and then change as the times change. That would make it a whore.