Racial discrimination in Malaysia

[Urbanredneck]

@bncpeter_gmail.com

I am a Scotsman, but have lived in Malaysia with my Chinese Malaysian wife for over twenty years so my (rather random) observations might be of interest.

Question, how much personal interaction do Malays and Chinese, and others have?

Ex. Do the groups intermarry much?
Do they go to the same churches?
Will they play on the same sports teams?
Do they attend the same schools?
Do their teenagers and kids have the same cultural icons?

[JKellyMap]

@Urbanredneck

Question, how much personal interaction do Malays and Chinese, and others have?

Ex. Do the groups intermarry much?
Do they go to the same churches?
Will they play on the same sports teams?
Do they attend the same schools?
Do their teenagers and kids have the same cultural icons?

A lot! They are very integrated in terms of where people live, work, play, shop, etc. Inter-marriage was rare in the past, but is starting to rise, though it’s still uncommon. The main obstacle to that is religion rather than other cultural traits. This is partly people’s true preferences, but it is reinforced by the government’ insistence on officially declaring each person to be belonging to one ethnic-religious group or another.

[Hector_St_Clare]

@Chief_Pedant

Asians outperform whites in the US, and ethnic Chinese outperform other Malaysians because, as a group, they are differently enabled genetically.

The ONLY reason this sort of statement is rejected outright is that it is unpalatable and politically incorrect. However mother nature never promised to be either.

If we were talking about breeds of horses or any other mammal sub-populations there wouldn’t be any tenderness to the topic. However with people our gut reaction is that it just can’t be so because we don’t want it to be so, and we begin to look for every other possible explanation. We look for historic reasons…we look for cultural reasons…we look for unfair measurement…we look for special excuses…anything but the obvious: success of various populations in various endeavors reflects an average innate ability for that endeavor.

Genetics defines a maximum potential. Obviously external circumstances can allow that maximum potential to be realized, or limit it. If you give me greater opportunity and the best teaching I could be better at math, but never great at it. Genetics is not the only thing. But it’s a huge thing, and differences in genetically-determined maximum potential as well as genetically-determined frequency of the best-capable individuals is what drives both culture itself and success of individuals within a broader culture.

Sure, a shopkeep might be from a wealthier family than a peasant farmer. But why is his family shopkeepers in the first place and the other from a family of peasant farmers? Why are some groups consistently dominant and others consistently taken advantage of? Why are the same populations successful whether they are minorities or majorities? I could look at scores from local high schools in Illinois and scores from most other countries I can think of and pretty much predict the chinese would be over-represented in the top tiers.

Of course, the larger the cohort being described, the looser the genetic consistency; there are subpopulations within the nation of China who do very poorly and others who do very well, for example. It’s probably more accurate to say that those genetically enabled for higher maximum intelligence potential on average do better in any culture over time, and that populations where the genes expressing for that trait are more prevalent do better as a population. Because one of our tendencies as humans is to self-identify with a particular group, those sorts of traits tend to retain their distributions within “ethnic” or “racial” cohorts.

In our society, where we put a value on diversity and justice for all, we must use race-based affirmative action if we want more equal distribution of the fruits of society among all its peoples. If we don’t actively do that, we’ll continue to see inequality among the self-identified cohorts and a persistent perception of injustice.

It doesn’t matter if the maldistribution is from genetics and it doesn’t matter if we shouldn’t identify with races. We refuse to accept genetic explanations and we are atavistically inclined to identify by clans. Therefore, until either of those change, we need to make some active efforts aimed at giving a place at the table to underperforming populations even if there is some expense and unfairness to the better-enabled. As the OP’s example shows, the better-enabled will find ways to succeed anyway.

I don’t think we know enough about the genetic basis for intelligence to say definitively, but this is generally the way I would bet, at least in part. I think it’s more likely than not that the Chinese advantage over southeast Asians is at least partially genetically based.

[bengangmo]

@JKellyMap

A lot! They are very integrated in terms of where people live, work, play, shop, etc. Inter-marriage was rare in the past, but is starting to rise, though it’s still uncommon. The main obstacle to that is religion rather than other cultural traits. This is partly people’s true preferences, but it is reinforced by the government’ insistence on officially declaring each person to be belonging to one ethnic-religious group or another.

I’m not so sure -

My wife’s family lives in KL and Ipoh,
from what I have seen the two races are still relatively insular.
While the “lower” class MAY (not always do) attend school together, the Malay language policy is resented from what I see in the Chinese community - and also once you start to reach the upper echelons of the system, there is more racial divergence. (for lack of a better word) religious ideals in some govt offices (google for "forced to wear trousers malaysia for examples of what I am talking about). The highly corrupt police force is almost entirely Malay.

Of all the time I have spent in Malaysia - we almost always eat at Chinese restaurants and seldom see Malays in the same dining places (they’re not Halal) and when we are shopping, I don’t see the sort of multi-cultural interaction being talked about.

While Malaysians might shop and play in the same places, often times they are not doing it “together”