Based on personal observations, fried chicken restaurants seem to be more common in predominantly black areas than in predominantly white or hispanic areas.
I think it’s one of those things where black folks do indeed like fried chicken a whole lot, probably more than your average white southerner, but also have some kind of strange (IMO) sensitivity about eating it due to whatever slavery/lower class connotations that it once held.
In my opinion at least, black culture has a bit of a chip on its shoulder about things like this- like others have said, bringing a Mexican dish to a Cinco de Mayo party would probably be ok, as would suggesting Italian food to a visiting Italian wouldn’t be seen as racist either, but a white person bringing fried chicken to a Juneteenth party wouldn’t go over well, precisely because it would be taken as racist, even if it wasn’t meant as such.
It’s almost like in many ways the black community wants non-black people to pretend that everyone’s the same, but then also make a big deal about their own blackness outwardly to everyone else. You can’t really have it both ways, I think.
Here in California, probably most of our black population has family in the South and/or recent roots there. So things associated with the South are sometimes more associated with black people. Although, I never knew there was a stereotype about watermelon until I was an adult.
What I’ve never really gotten is why fried chicken is considered a sensitive issue, but other stereotypical “black people foods” aren’t. I’ve never heard of anyone getting offended about red beans and rice, collard greens, catfish, gumbo, grits, neckbones, chitterlings, ribs, sweet potato pie, etc.
The black posters in the thread have made it clear, repeatedly, why it’s racist. It’s racist because it’s racist, or to say it a little less elliptically, it has racist force because it alludes to earlier expressions of racism.
All the arguments about “it doesn’t make sense for it to be racist!” will not argue away the fact that it is racist - that it has racist force. It doesn’t have to make sense in order to be racist. (You expected racism to make sense??) I mean, did you look at MrDibble’s link? Constant, repeated, reinforced use for racist meanings, that continues to the present day.
Virtually anything could have taken on racist meanings if it had been used that way consistently over the course of the oppression of blacks through American history. If, oh God I don’t know, green hats had been constantly used in racist caricature and racist discourse of all kinds for decades, green hats would be racist because they would allude to all that racism. They would have come to symbolize racism, the same way anything comes to symbolize anything.
There’s an ugly undertone here – mostly unconscious, I think (I hope) – that if a plausible argument can be constructed about why it’s illogical for these symbols to symbolize racism, they won’t really be racist in the first place, and that will prove that black people are wrong for complaining about them and therefore are being obstreperous (“chip on the shoulder”) and whatever they have to say on the subject can then be dismissed, to the relief of the white person who is then excused from worrying about racism, and isn’t it fortunate we have white people around to tell us what racism actually is and in what it consists. Instead, why not listen to what the black people, the ones confronted with anti-black racism day to day, have to say about it.
I’m still finding it funny that people are talking about all these “blacks with chips on their shoulders”, and yet there has been very little participation in this thread by black Dopers. Maybe we’re all special.
The whole point I was trying to make is that although the “fried chicken and watermelon” stereotype is racist, the fact remains that fried chicken is very popular among black people. It’s really hard to separate someone innocently saying that black people like fried chicken from someone trying to evoke the old stereotype.
That’s what I was getting at with the “chip on the shoulder”- if black people didn’t actually eat a large amount of fried chicken then it would be unambiguously racist. The fact is that they do eat a lot of fried chicken- where do you draw that line between racist and a mere observation?
For example, if you drive into an area with a lot of fried chicken restaurants, and a bunch of check-cashing joints, is it racist to assume that it’s probably a predominantly black area? How about if you go to the grocery store and you have stuff like chitlins, collard greens and a large section of malt liquor and fruity sodas, and then assume that the store is catering to a black population? Is that racist? Is it any more racist than going to a store named “Fiesta” that has a dozen varieties of tortillas and Mexican beers, and assuming that it caters to Mexicans?
Obviously if you were at work and trying to figure out what to have catered for the training lunch for a predominantly black class, assuming that fried chicken would be appropriate might be (mildly) racist. Even then, it’s out of a misguided idea to please the class, rather than anything derogatory, and if the black class got upset, it would strike me as a ‘chip on the shoulder’ situation.
FWIW, monstro, you made me aware yesterday of a bit of unconscious racism: the OP’s talk about blacks rioting rolled off my back until I read your post. It’s definitely an old trope, that black people will beat the hell out of white people who are really or imaginarily racist, and it’s not one I’ve looked at before. So thanks to you for being you as well.
On a tangentially related note today, I went to the grocery store where there were a lot of photos in the ads of cute kids eating groceries. The kid eating a giant slice of watermelon could not possibly have been whiter: blonde, blue eyes, ribbons. The shot of three kids eating popsicles had a single light-skinned black kid in it.
Actually, it’s not that hard. Are you doing a demographic study for marketing of food products or services? If not, there’s hardly ever a good reason to remark on it.
… if anything, the fried chicken and watermelon, were the bounty and greed of the Riches, delicacies that were reserved for the one percent. Like a Roman slave breaking into his massah’s wine cellar. You get the sour and cut vinegar wine, you slave, thou. And then they turned it against them and made them feel guilty for purely classist reasons.
I mean, I’d liketo make a “Fried Chicken and Watermelon” Salad. Maybe following in the footsteps od the Applebee’s Oriental Chicken Salad. A mesclun baby greens and spinach salad, with Gried and breaded chicken, roasted, cubed yam and watermelon garnish, Spicy sweet roasted pecans, Lightly chopped Pork rinds or cracklins and a similar creamy asian dressing.
…But would I be run out of town on a rail or lynched for daring this dish?
Probably, in the case of the bolded bit–that’s a thing you find in POOR neighborhoods whether they’re white or black.
Regarding the food thing: It’s been clarified repeatedly in the thread–it’s not racist to note that there tend to be more fried chicken restaurants correlated with black populations, nor is it racist to note that it’s considered part of the “soul food” cuisine. It IS racist to assume that any given black person wants fried chicken for any given meal, and it’s frankly just myopic to not notice that there’s a difference between the above observations and usage of fried chicken and watermelon imagery in racist ways.
That sounds exactly like something someone who eats poutine would say! matt_mcl has summed things up pretty well, I think. If you’ve read this thread and still can’t see how fried chicken has been used to reinforce racial stereotypes then it’s because you choose not to see it. You’re right, fried chicken in and of itself isn’t racist any more than a burning cross is racist or a man grinning like a loon while wearing a pillbox hat is racist. However, the cultural symbolism we’ve attached to those images certainly demonstrate a history of racism.
Agreed. Why, at any point in your life, do you need to say
“Black people like watermelon”
“Indian people eat curry and smell like it”
“Chinese people eat”…well, whatever it is that Chinese people like to eat.
“All Southern people eat grits and chitlins”
What is the need for this? Innocently or otherwise, I have never caught myself saying “X race likes X things”. Sure, I categorize and lump people together. I’m no saint. But maybe it’s because I am an American, with an (East) Indian skin, that I never think of things in terms of race - I know how things change and how people just don’t fit the stereotypes. Nationality, sure. I like things most Americans like. I’m not Indian, I happen to be of Indian descent. I’m American. We’d like to be judged based on who you are.
If you say Joe-Bob over there eats watermelon like no tomorrow and he happens to be black, nothing really wrong with it. If you assume Joe-Bob eats watermelon because he is black, this is stupid and offensive and unneccessary and why do you have to do it?
To compound it all blacks stereotypically eating watermelon is not a good image. It calls to mind those racist pictures of blacks with gigantic noses and huge toothy grins, like all of the troubles in the world are gone cause they got their watermelon. It’s already bad enough to assume characteristics to a specific race and it’s like 30x worse in this country when it comes to blacks.
And it makes me sad to think that people won’t eat fried chicken in public or watermelon - but I understand it, on a smaller scale.
Now gimme some goddamn poutine. Ah, Montreal!
I’ll tell you where it might be necessary, in a restaurant marketing meeting or even planning for a catered event. All of these in my experience in the food industry do have real life solid numbers and correlations and we don’t have the luxury or time in the real world to shield everyone’s innocence or sense of indignity from perceived racial sleights or offense. I found Indians were the worst of all in being insular and prejudiced foodists, they’d want to rent out our halls but 9 times out of 10 they would want some Indian inspired item or menu, or most times would bypass oir kitchen and bring in an outside Indian cook/caterer/ And yes, they liked their curry and the whole banquet hall would smell like it days after.
