This thread is mostly about people active in discussing politics. The everyday person is not as obsessed with racial classification as the rabid activists. Let’s be honest, I’m talking about the lower classes, who regard people on an individual basis rather than as members of a collective. When they talk in racial collective language it’s mostly harmless and they’re usually just joking around.
The politics of racialism are beloved across the political spectrum. We have the usual suspects, including your KKK, your neo-Nazis, your White Nationalists. They are still having a good time with this. You have your Trumpists, who prefer immigrants from Europe, whom they would classify as “White”.
You also have your moderates who support race-based policies like affirmative action. Your right of center moderates don’t talk race too much. As soon as you tick past that plumb-line into the Obamas, Bidens, and Clinton’s, we start hearing it. Racialism is wholly inescapable in leftist rhetoric. Racial diversity is paramount. They group everyone into races and advocate for policy based on race. Every event that happens must be viewed through the racialist lens.
I have a simple question for the many racialists among us. Who is white? Who is black?
We have some historical examples. We had the “one drop rule”. Is this still in effect? We have the paper bag test. We have heritage-based claims of race, but these seem rather fluid and confusing. One person in a pit thread suggested he can tell if someone is white by last name. When we were on the playground as young kids, a person’s voice was a factor. Do economic factors play a role? I am in need of guidance on this, buddies.
Mind blown. What discussion is possible after this? This is the equivalent of a math thread that starts with 1 = 2.
Start with this instead. Everybody wants equal treatment. If they aren’t getting equal treatment, they will complain. The people who benefit from unequal treatment will dig in their heels.
Now, what is the obvious next step? (Hint, it’s not to blame the people who aren’t getting equal treatment and complaining.)
Racism is real. It’s not something people made up so they can have a cause or an excuse. If you can’t accept this basic fact - which is a fact - then you’re living in a delusion and there’s no point going any further with you.
If you’re still here, let’s talk about racism. Not all people experience racism the same. Racism is an act carried out by individuals but individual acts of racism group together and form patterns. That’s why there can be white racists who act against black people and black racists who act against white people but white racism against black people is collectively worse than black racism against white people. That doesn’t excuse the actions of individual racists, black or white, but it explains why some racism is worse than others.
Racism can have a lot of different levels. Sometimes racism is denying somebody a job or a place to live. Sometimes racism is killing somebody. Sometimes racism is telling a joke. And sometimes racism is doing nothing while somebody else is doing something racist. People support racism by not opposing it. Some forms of racism are worse than others but all racism is bad. There is no acceptable minimum amount of racism above zero.
And let’s talk about racial realism; the idea that the reason black people in America are causing their own problems. Black people get sent to prison in disproportionate numbers? That’s because black people commit more crimes. Black people get shot by the police in disproportionate numbers? That’s because black people resist arrest more. Black people are poorer and have worse jobs on average? That’s because black people are less likely to finish school. Racial realists want to grab the first answer and then stop thinking about the problem.
Because what they should be doing is asking the next question: Why do black people commit more crimes? Why do black people resist arrest more? Why are black people less likely to finish school? And then when they answer those questions, go on to the next level. Until they arrive at the fundamental question: Are black people inherently different than white people? Or are black people and white people fundamentally the same and black people are just responding to different experiences than white people?
I can’t point out different aspects of racialism in politics?
I’m a bit bewildered with this comment. In my experience, the lower classes don’t care about collectives as much as the middle and upper classes care. Most activists are middle class. I’m not blaming anyone, I’m simply pointing out where racialism exists. I’m confused about how the racial classification is done.
I know racism exists. I just claimed racism is present throughout American society in case you missed it. I listed a few racist and racialist groups. My question is a simple one. Since the politically active want race-based policies, I think it is a fair question to ask.
Before our conversation about “black” people and “white” people, should we not define the groups?
We can have a conversation all day about how to kipel regnews and flarse meps.
The OP is an excellent example of poisoning the well. No, liberals aren’t as he describes them – like most folks, he doesn’t understand the mindset of those others that he holds in contempt.
Considering the well-poisoning, this thread probably belongs in the Pit, IMO.
Do you deny that liberals want race-based policies and consider racial diversity to be a goal of policy? If so, maybe I am misunderstanding the position and you can clarify the liberal position on race.
Perhaps you are familiar with the work of Jonathan Haidt who found that those on the right could articulate a more accurate representation of left positions than vice versa.
No, I don’t think that at all. I think they are more apt to view someone as an individual than as a member of a collective, and they are less likely to seek political remedies for supposed racial problems.
For real. The most explicit racism I ever heard was when I was working minimum-wage jobs. It’s not to say that middle-class people are enlightened or anything, but his ideas about poor people are fantastical.
Well, I guess this is the forum for witnessing, but whatever the hell you witnessed, it is coming across as an opinion. And a poorly-formed one at that.
Race is one of those “You know it when you see it” things. If someone is obviously white, they’re white. If they’re obviously black, they’re black. If they’re mixed and you can’t readily see the difference, then they can call themselves whichever they want.
People (not the OP, but others) often like to deliberately cite examples of mixed people who are right “in between” to say that “there is no such thing as race.” That’s simply the grain-of-sand-continuum fallacy.