Racialism: Everyone's Favorite Politics

[WillFarnaby]

@Little_Nemo

You claim you know all about racism but then claim you need to have questions like this answered for you. You should decide on a single set of consistent claims.

I’m not going to engage in an argument over the details. That’s just a tactic to divert attention away from the problem.

The general principle is that black people and white people often get treated differently because of their race. People should not get treated differently because of their race. So we should work on moving from the current situation where people are treated differently to one where people are not treated differently because of their race.

Talking about racism is good when it’s a prelude to doing something against racism. Talking about racism is bad when it’s an excuse to avoid doing something against racism.

I never claimed to know everything about racialism. On the contrary, I asked specifically about something I did not understand about racialism.

[WillFarnaby]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

In my city, there’s been a nasty history of redlining. A business district that contained the lion’s share of black-owned businesses got bulldozed a few decades ago in order to make room for huge tourist hotels and other “urban revitalization projects”. One of the few non-public-housing neighborhoods that’s primarily black homes is probably going to be bulldozed in the next few years so the interstate can be widened. When schools were integrated, the black school was torn down, and its sports teams and band programs were discontinued.

Partly as a result of these factors, and partly as a result of other factors, our city has a huge economic disparity between black and white residents. Our schools have one of the highest achievement gaps in the state.

Debating who exactly is black is a ridiculous approach to these problems. Waving a magic wand to make everyone blind to race won’t solve any of the current problems caused by past injustice.

If you’re running a marathon, and for the first ten miles you’ve had weights attached to each foot, and you watched other weight-free runners pass you by, will you consider the problem solved if after ten miles the weights are removed?

If we don’t know who the advocates of race-based policies believe is “black”, how can we know they are right when they make claims such as “black people are mistreated”?

[octopus]

@jayjay

All I really needed to see was “racialism” in the thread title to know it was going to be well-poisoning and bullshit of the basest variety.

That’s a masterful rebuttal.

What’s the purpose of exploiting genetic/racial differences? Why not just treat everyone equally?

[Czarcasm]

@octopus

That’s a masterful rebuttal.

What’s the purpose of exploiting genetic/racial differences? Why not just treat everyone equally?

Why do you ask that of the victims, and not the victimizers?

[Exapno_Mapcase]

@WillFarnaby

If we don’t know who the advocates of race-based policies believe is “black”, how can we know they are right when they make claims such as “black people are mistreated”?

Because people who say they are black are saying they’ve been mistreated in ways that people who say they are white are not. They have been saying this loudly and consistently for decades. You are essentially calling them liars. Think about that. You are saying that the core aspect of their everyday experience cannot be believed and that what millions of people are claiming is absolutely false. That is the most race-based policy imaginable. To be consistent yourself, you surely want this stomped out immediately.

[octopus]

@Czarcasm

Why do you ask that of the victims, and not the victimizers?

I’m asking that of everyone.

[WillFarnaby]

@Exapno_Mapcase

Because people who say they are black are saying they’ve been mistreated in ways that people who say they are white are not. They have been saying this loudly and consistently for decades. You are essentially calling them liars. Think about that. You are saying that the core aspect of their everyday experience cannot be believed and that what millions of people are claiming is absolutely false. That is the most race-based policy imaginable. To be consistent yourself, you surely want this stomped out immediately.

Ok now we are getting some substance. So anyone who self-identifies as black is black?

[Ruken]

Well* they* certainly think so.

[MrDibble]

@WillFarnaby

No, there’s an actual dictionary with the term “racialism” in it though.

Mine says:

racialism
ˈreɪʃəlɪz(ə)m
noun
another term for racism.

[Little_Nemo]

@WillFarnaby

Are one of those tools advocacy for race-based policies?

It can be.

@WillFarnaby

So you admit that race-based policies are not rational?

Of course I don’t. I would never say something that stupid.

I said racism is irrational. Race-based policies (at least the ones you’re talking about) are not racism. They’re policies to oppose racism, which makes them the opposite of racism.

I can imagine some people objecting that these race-based policies are not applied to everyone equally. Of course they’re not; they’re policies for addressing racism. People don’t experience equal shares of racism so they shouldn’t expect equal shares of the policies addressing racism.

[Little_Nemo]

@WillFarnaby

Ok now we are getting some substance. So anyone who self-identifies as black is black?

No, Exapno Mapcase didn’t say that. He said that people who say they are black have been identified as black. He never said it was just a self-identification.

[Little_Nemo]

@octopus

What’s the purpose of exploiting genetic/racial differences? Why not just treat everyone equally?

Because it’s not enough for you to personally treat everyone equally if you support other people that you know are treating people unequally.

[RTFirefly]

@WillFarnaby

I can’t point out different aspects of racialism in politics?

You may point out anything you like. And I may compare two things you said, and roll my eyes at the absurdity of the presence of both statements in one post.

We may say this, we may say that - indeed, we may say anything we want. We may say, for example, that [Duke Lotto] was not a man at all, but rather a highly evolved bicycle. See? We may say just about anything.
-from “House Agamemnides: Historical Perspectives and Worthless Digressions” by the Princess Serutan

[octopus]

@Little_Nemo

Because it’s not enough for you to personally treat everyone equally if you support other people that you know are treating people unequally.

Which is why I don’t support modern liberalism.

[andros]

@RTFirefly

…from “House Agamemnides: Historical Perspectives and Worthless Digressions” by the Princess Serutan

You are the dorkiest dork who ever dorked. You know I love you with the fiery passion of a thousand suns, right Rufus?

[Exapno_Mapcase]

@WillFarnaby

Ok now we are getting some substance. So anyone who self-identifies as black is black?

No, we are lacking major amounts of substance. Since you are obsessed with definitions, you need to provide yours. I assume that you recognize that some people are considered to be non-white. How do you distinguish them? By skin color? If not, what other markers are used? Please be exact. In addition, provide the criteria by which you decide that people who self-identify as a PoC are not doing so accurately.

[Little_Nemo]

@octopus

What’s the purpose of exploiting genetic/racial differences? Why not just treat everyone equally?

@Little_Nemo

Because it’s not enough for you to personally treat everyone equally if you support other people that you know are treating people unequally.

@octopus

Which is why I don’t support modern liberalism.

Okay, I’m going to assume you’re just being unclear here. But in the context of what’s been posted, you appear to be endorsing racism. Which I’m assuming is not your intent.

So perhaps you would like to explain what you meant.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@WillFarnaby

Ok now we are getting some substance. So anyone who self-identifies as black is black?

The overwhelming, like more than 99%, of people who self-identify as black would have their identification agreed on by the overwhelming majority of Americans.

There is, if not a precise definition, a consensus.

[JohnT]

@Little_Nemo

Okay, I’m going to assume you’re just being unclear here. But in the context of what’s been posted, you appear to be endorsing racism. Which I’m assuming is not your intent.

So perhaps you would like to explain what you meant.

No need to divine, or even ask, his intent.

[tomndebb]

@Little_Nemo

And let’s talk about racial realism; the idea that the reason black people in America are causing their own problems. Black people get sent to prison in disproportionate numbers? That’s because black people commit more crimes. Black people get shot by the police in disproportionate numbers? That’s because black people resist arrest more.

Poorer people commit crimes that involve the police more frequently than richer people, so a society that has a lot of barriers to black people escaping poverty and a justice system that is harsher on black people than on white people is going to disproportionately punish black people.
Anyone who has watched the news for the last couple of years who still thinks that police shootings are based on resisting arrest has only been watching Fox news. Antwan Rose, Stephon Clark, Philando Castile, Terrence Crutcher, Charles Kinsey, Samuel DuBose, Walter Scott, Laquan McDonald, and others were hardly resisting arrest. (Two were fleeing from minor/misdemeanor infractions, but others were fully compliant with police orders.)