Do you think someone like Clint Howard getting a contract with funds designated for minority-owned businesses is in line with progressive policy and rhetoric?
Then you are taking huge leaps in logic and assuming something I never remotely said. Perhaps you have a mental caricature of people who advocate non-violence and peaceful disobedience.
Everyone is just a human being. Race matters insomuch as perception. As such, I would think Obama experienced many of the same prejudices as others who are perceived as black. (However, he experienced not as much of the economic disadvantages that befall many in that community disproportionately, coming from a non-poor household.)
I already asked you a direct question. Two. They were very clear, but let’s try again.
They said “you either are or you aren’t [white]”. Do you agree with this statement?
They said “he aren’t [white]”, translated “Obama isn’t white”. Do you agree with this statement.
So whether Obama is black or white is not important to you, but the experiences he individually experienced is? That is identical to my position, my own corollary being that race-based policy is not advisable because it does not take into account individual experience.
This question used to be easy. You could just ask the actual racists who they were discriminating against blacks and you could figure out who the blacks were. For a while black included the irish and italians.
These days its tougher because black isn’t defined by the racists, its defined by the folks trying to reverse the effects of racism and they never really had a clue wtf the critieria was for being a second class citizen, so they guess. In the process of guessing they end up giving advantages to middle class blacks over poor asian immigrants because they see blacks as a whole doing poorly and asians as a whole doing better and decide that this disparity must be the result of racism, past or present.
I suspect we will see the end of these racial preferences in the next few years after they confirm this justice and perhaps one more under Trump (if RBG gets sick)
The problem is that a lot of policies being pushed are a reaction to injustice but a reaction to disparity. There is this belief that disparity cannot exist without racism or injustice so everywhere you see blacks and hispanics underperforming, you see race based policy emerging.
Non American offering us advice. Thanks, but we got this. We didn’t get to be the greatest land on the planet by taking advice from foreigners.
Seriously, though, you’re missing the point of E pluribus unum. We are a country brought together by ideals, not ethnicity, so there is nothing divisive (in theory) when some of us retain ethic cultural sub-identities as part of being American. German Americans (I presume) are well aware they are Americans, as are African Americans and every other group that lives here. German Americans and African Americans are not less American than Catholic Americans, or Jewish Americans, or female Americans, or football loving Americans. It’s just an added description, it may sound weird to foreigners, but we’re okay with it.
Assuming this is what they meant (and I have no reason to believe you can read the minds of those you call “bumpkins” any better than you do liberals), then no. Race is a very complicated social construct. It’s entirely possible to be both white and another category, or many other (nigh-infinite) combinations.
I’d have to ask Mr. Obama (again, assuming this is what they meant). Anyone making such a statement about someone they don’t know intimately is demonstrating great ignorance about the complicated nature of the social construct of race.
So once again, you are completely wrong about how liberals think. I know there’s very little chance of this, but hopefully you’ll re-evaluate your own thinking of liberals/progressives and recognize that your impressions and tendencies of their/our motivations are usually wildly incorrect.
Do you?
Nothing is perfect when it comes to “policy.” Although I’m not sure what “race-based” policies you’re thinking about, isn’t it often better to so something than nothing? It’s really going to be hard to replace a minority-owned business preference with one that attempts to take into account individual experiences.
The way I see it, and would argue. Policy needs to be colorblind or you are in fact endorsing racism. Whether or not it’s intended to right a wrong of hundreds of years ago or a wrong you just saw committed, it’s still wrong and racist in it’s own right.
Policies that are colorblind need to be enforced colorblind as well. If, for example, police are treating a certain demographic differently, then that needs to be addressed, but NOT with a racist policy. It needs to be addressed by following the colorblind policy that affects everyone equally. Eventually, as stated everyone will be some gray color and race will be gone.
The continuation of racist policies keeps the divide bright even if in your mind it is to create a more equal playing field
There’s plenty of evidence (discussed in lots of other threads) that these disparities are due to injustices. You might or might not find this evidence convincing. IMO, affirmative action is an imperfect and temporary solution that, when well instituted, results in more just and equal opportunities for all than existed without it.
Affirmative action, while intending to grant opportunities to those who previously may not have, is still a racist policy. To grant someone opportunities based upon race instead of opportunity based upon experience or some other individual basis, is racist.
Make it a colorblind (say based upon being poor, or being the kin of a slave, or kin of an American Indian), but making a policy that affects only those of a certain race, is racism. Period.
I disagree. If you want to have an in depth conversation about AA, I might take part, but I’d recommend opening a new thread or reopening one of the many existing threads on the topic, to avoid a hijack.
Hmm, with so much complication, the way strident claims such as “black people are treated unjustly by white people” seems a bit hamfisted.
- This “bumpkin” thing you’re pushing? Bored already.
- Mindreading isn’t the only thing you aren’t very good at-They were implying that Obama wasn’t black, therefore they weren’t being racist by hating him.
Ok then repeal and don’t replace it the government is unable to accomplish such a hard task.
Reread
… while at the same time…
… :dubious: