Racially-Biased Tests -- Florida schoolchildren failing third grade

Great Debates
1

So I was listening to NPR the other day, and heard a story about how Florida is holding back quite a few third graders, because they are unable to pass a test. The test is designed to make sure that the kids are able to read at a certain level before they continue on. Because “from grades 1 to 3, kids learn to read, but from fourth grade on, they read to learn”. Apparently a good number of the kids that failed are African American. So the NAACP has a lawsuit against the state of Florida, claiming that the test is racially biased.

Now, I also think its odd that so many of the failing kids are African American, but how can it be the test’s fault? You either can read, or not read.

How can a reading test be racially-biased? Can anyone show me a question that is racially-biased, and tell me why it is? And if the test is not at fault, why are these kids not learning to read? I’m wondering if a good deal of these children live in poverty, and how does poverty affect the ability to learn to read?

2

Here is a news story that gives some background on the issue.

Parts of long article below

FCAT indicates minorities lag far behind in school

3

Exactly. The suit about the test being biased doesn’t get you far. What the NAACP should do is to use the test to sue Florida for not providing equal education to minorities. This suit might get the test shut down, if it wins. Suing for better education would actually improve schools in the state.

4

It might be nice if something did, since the schools in Florida have been in bad shape for a long time. In the 1960’s the schools in Duval county (Jacksonville) were disaccredited and my National Merit Scholar brother almost didn’t get to go to college.

Things are much worse now, with increasing population and lower school funding because there is no state income tax. Sales tax revenues fund the schools, and as one columnist put it, the sales of Mickey Mouse hats in Orlando affects the amount of chalk in Gainesville.

5

The government is required to offer equal opportunity. Emphasis on opportunity.

It’s not required, legally or ethically, to produce equal results. I doubt very much that the state of Florida is actively or passively trying to fail in teaching black students; if such is the case, it should of course be stopped and reformed.

But, socioeconomic and cultural explanations seem to explain the reading gap perfectly well on their own without the need to resort to malevolence on the part of the government.

6

Only partly true. From this article

I know when I get my property tax bill there’s a huge chunk for schools.

7

I don’t know whether this applies to the Florida situation, but it is possible for kids not to test well for cultural reasons that have little to do with ability. One of the classic examples concerns a group of children from a small immigrant community (I forget which culture) in an American town where most of the other children were white and middle-class. When the teachers in this town quizzed the students about yesterday’s math lesson, the kids with American-born parents would come up with the correct answers, while most of the immigrants’ children would stare blankly.

The teachers simply assumed that the immigrants’ children weren’t learning math – until one day an outside researcher visited the school and asked exactly the same questions, and this time almost all of the children responded appropriately.

It eventually came to light that adults in this particular culture rarely asked children questions, and when they did it was strictly for information, never for the purpose of checking the child’s knowledge about a subject as American parents do. (E.g., a strange adult might ask a child his name or age, but the child’s own parents or relatives would not do so – they would, after all, already know the child’s name and age, and the idea of asking a question so that the child could “practice” answering appropriately was entirely foreign to them.) Therefore, the children were completely baffled when a teacher asked them about facts they knew the teacher already knew, while they were willing to answer the same questions from a stranger, whom they assumed did not know the answers to these questions.

While this story doesn’t have any direct bearing on standardized testing, it does illustrate how cultural biases can be built into an academic system without this being immediately obvious to someone from the dominant culture. It’s entirely possible that something like this could be going on with the Florida tests; we’d need more information to know.

8

I don’t know. Statistics I’ve seen show that Blacks do more poorly than Whites on standardized tests even when socioeconomic factors are taken into account. The gap narrows quite a bit, but it’s still there. Sorry, don’t have a cite, but I’ve read this over and over in articles that explore this issue.

I don’t have an explanation, just repeating what seems to be a the reality.

And I agree crying “racism” in this instance is probably counter-productive. We need to understand the root of this problem.

9

The kids didn’t notice that everyone else was responding?

Weird.

Nevertheless, your point is noted.

10

Of course the reading test scoring in Flordia is culturely biased. The tests are culturely biased towards the culture that we are in.

For better or worst it can’t be otherwise. If the people who are suing want another cultural gauge to measure the progress of their nine-year-old children then they must also make certain that their children will grow up in the same culture that allowed them to score well in the modified cultural bias of the new tests.

And right now, like it or leave it, in America, western culture is the only game in town.

11

Interestingly, we’ve had this discussion in Ontario - or at least a similar discussion.

Culture plays a part in our provincial tests. This is why the French math/reading/writing tests for Francophone students is different than the ones being written by anglophones and/or french immersion (mostly anglophones by mother tongue) kids. Mind you, we also have different school boards. This makes a difference.

Things are actually taught differently, and the tests are not “multiple choice” type tests. As a francophone who has helped work on these (grades 3 and 6), I can say that there are actually significant differences in the way we phrase and present things, in the topics we choose, and in the way we order these tests that does reflect a significant cultural difference. YES, we test the same skills. The tests are, technically, testing the same things - they are, however, worded differently, presented VERY differently (a lot more teacher-student interraction in the french tests - english schools are still very much “pencil and paper” testing. Not the french school boards.)

I’m not sure what to do when it comes to this kind of thing - kids are in the same schools, presented materials in the same way. It’s a different situation than ours in Ontario, in that we already have a “culturally different” school system based on language (and culture, in a way.) In the end, students are equally prepared (though french students tend to do better in some areas, or so we’re seeing now, and are functionally bilingual).

Doing this in this case would mean segregation, which would be BAD. I’m not sure what they can do to help bridge the gap. That’s an unusually high number of kids failing…

(Oh, and to note: these reading tests are usually reading comprehension based - not reading “out loud”)

What a mess for those kids, though… :frowning:

12

That’s not strictly true. While FL isn’t one of the states the company I work for handles, we do a lot of reading tests along with other subjects for standardized tests. The tests are not “can you read this?” but " can you read this and demonstrate you understood it?" Since it’s testing comprehension though their ablity to answer questions based on a passage, not just one’s ability to read, it’s possible to skew the test results by what reading selection is given.

If you gave a reading selection to NH third graders that was full of southern food terms (grits, chitlins, okra etc) and tested their comprehension of the passage, it would probably be pretty low, given that kids in NH don’t eat those things, and most would have never heard of them before, and they’re not allowed to consult a dictionary to help them. I can easily picture a similar situation arising in FL if kids were told to read about something like frappes or traffic circles.

You would think that the state board of education (which is often who designs the tests for the state’s children- but in FL’s case I’m not sure if they do) would be in touch with what children are actually taught, thus avoid setting the kids up for failure by creating a test that includes alien terms, but it’s often not the case because many spend little or no time in the classroom finding out what is being taught before designing the tests.

13

Well, I won’t vouch for all the details – I read the story in a rhetoric and comp textbook ages ago, and I can’t find the book now (and textbooks have been known to print ULs, anyway). The general principle still stands, though, and I’m sure Elenfair can supply better examples.

14

How is the state of Florida not providing " ‘equal education’ to minorities" as one reader put it?

In the article it states that there are gaps WITHIN the same school, and within the same class. Are you suggesting that schools kind of internally segregate students and give blacks poorer schooling? Is that the only explanation for poorer results on the part of minorities?

These educational gaps turn up in simple math tests too. Is math culturally biased? Is albegra? 2x=6, what does x =? Is that biased? Good luck learning engineering or science if you think albebra is “biased”. That’s close to saying that “reasoning skills are biased”. Isn’t that racist?

Asking Florida to not test until the “close the gap” is ridiculous. It’s circular. The reason they test is to identify weak students to keep them back until they learn the stuff.

If black kids want to do better they’ll just have to change their culture. Read more, etc. The school and the gov’t can’t legally force their parents to read to them and force them to turn off the TV. It’s only remedy is more schooling which is why they’re testing in the first place!

15

I think this problem wouldn’t be as severe as it is with more school funding. It could provide for smaller classrooms, in which teachers can identify individual problems, and spend more time with the student in these areas.

It could also help buy textbooks which are exciting and engaging. I remember once when I was in elementary school that we got new science textbooks. Our school was not a wealthy one, so this was somewhat of a novelty. Every kid in my class combed through the new books, exclaiming over the neat pictures. Cool facts listed next to them caught the attention of some, who started reading the accompanying text to learn more about what had interested them.

The old books had been ponderous and dull, and the books themselves were much battered. The condition of them, I think, discouraged some respect for them. Looking at the long list of names in the front cover of students who had trod this weary path before gave me a sense of monotony-- of cold, useless facts which must be memorized and regurgitated on command.

I remember that the new book had a picture of a supernova. I was entranced. Surely, nothing * that * pretty could really exist in space-- it had to be a painting of some guesswork imagry. But no-- it was really a picture. I had to read on. This book inspired my love of science.

Better pay and smaller classes might also cut down on teacher burnout. Anyone who’s ever had an excellent teacher, who was excited about his subject and loved his job knows what a difference that can make in your educational life. Making learning fun is the key to making kids love it.

Kids whose families don’t encourage them to strive in their studies will always be at a disadvantage. However, I do believe that if teachers were able to give each student more attention and help with problem areas, along with interesting materials, kids would at least be able to pass the test.

16

The two questions I always have wondered in regard to racially baised tests (or specifically, the SATS) are these: First, as someone pointed out, how can MATH be racially biased? From what I remember of the math portion of the SATs, most of it is not open to much interpretation. “IS column A or B larger?” “Calculate…”, etc. Its not many word problems, from what I remember. Its pretty straight numbers, you know it or you don’t. Second, if the tests are racially baised, why do Asians do so well? Are there an inordinant number of Asian test question writers and passages that I failed to identify or recall?

          Can anyone give a specific example of a question they think is biased somehow, either from the SATs or from the Florida tests?  There has to be some examples floating around.  I, for one, as a scientist at heart, am very skeptical of the circular reasoning in this whole process.  You can't just see a correlation and then jump to only one conclusion.  I am sure there are any number of reasons for the gap between the students, of which race may be one.  However, to simply try and have the tests wholly dismissed due to race seems rather extreme.  It smacks of whining and accusations from minorities of bias in whites that seems not entirely proven.  Such possibly false accusations only make things worse.
17

I really hate the idea of more school funding. I’m not sure where I read this but the US spends more per student than any other country in the world. I think we need to ask WHY we aren’t getting a good return on the “investment”.

In Washington DC they spend $10K plus per student per year, which is actually more than the surrounding (mostly white) areas of Virginia. Yet the schools are atrocious. So why is that?

When I was growing up 20 years ago or so, most classes were 25-35 kids. This was not unusual at all and I grew up in an upper middle class town. CNN had a display the other day of class sizes per state, and most class sizes were 16-25 kids. And they want even SMALLER class sizes?

It really doesn’t cost that much to teach someone how to read or how to do basic math. If some kids can’t do it, they either aren’t working hard enough (at home and school) or are just a little slow. What should be done with slow people? Does it make more sense to individually tutor them or is that just throwing good money after bad? Maybe some people will be able to function well, but will never be scholars? Is that too politically incorrect to state?

Not everyone can be a decent basketball player, does that mean the white kids who aren’t good are being discriminated against b/c they’re not getting extra help? And if they’re still not good after getting extra help, does that mean the system is racist?

I don’t think that lack of equality of results is synonymous with an unfair system.

18

I agree with Lissa that the discrepancy can likely be narrowed by providing more funds for those schools that have too few teachers for too many students.

Is the property tax in Florida doled out like it is in many states, where the suburban property taxes go to suburban schools, and inner city property taxes go to inner city schools? I can’t imagine that that doesn’t have a large effect on the success of students as they progress through their school years. In the places I’ve been, the folks who cry the loudest that everything is fair and it must be the fault of the black parents, are the same ones who fight tooth and nail to stop fair property tax distribution measures. It’s not unlike the pro-lifers being against sex education and easily available birth control methods. I find it appalling.

I’ve seen two schools in the same city, one with a nice computer lab, and many computers in each classroom, with probably hundreds of computers total, the other with a single computer or two, shared by the whole school. There are even schools that can’t afford enough textbooks for the kids to be able to take one home, while the other school doesn’t have this problem.

Every child should have the exact same opportunity as every other child, no matter the how great or small the wealth of the residents of their neighborhood. Once that happens, I’d be willing to bet that the gap would narrow fairly quickly.

19

bri1600bv,

Your thread certainly seems to read as if you think blacks are inherently “slower” than whites, but that they at least are more likely to be good basketball players.

I’ll withhold comment until you clear the air on what you are trying to say.

20

As for the results of the tests being influenced by some schools getting more money…you have to read the article. It talked about passing differences between races IN THE SAME SCHOOL. Not different schools. THE SAME SCHOOL. Not same district, different schools, but the same ones.

I don’t think blacks are inherently slower and you probably wouldn’t think I did, unless you are assuming whites are inherently less good at basketball. You don’t think that do you?

I get confused as to why the answer is “spend more money on the kids who aren’t doing well”. You should try to make sure everyone has a chance, but if some kids aren’t trying then what’s the point? There is a law of diminishing returns. Some kids aren’t going to be scholars, I don’t think it’s the schools’ fault.

The basketball analogy is just to show how ridiculous it is. I wasn’t really good at basketball. Did people demand I get a special tutor? Was it an outrage? No, that’s just life. Everyone has different skills and chooses to develop them differently.

Contrast this with academics. All children are equally able and there are not equal results, then it’s an outrage. There must be racism somewhere. There must be a difference of school funding even within the same school.