To the extent there’s a General Answer here, we’ve already seen it. The rest is just debate, so off to GD it is.
Then where did Florida Cracker come from, if not from the Cowboys in Florida “Cracking” their whips while driving cattle through the palmettos?
Florida Cracker
Endangered Species
They were just Georgia crackers who lost their grip and fell down the map into Florida. 
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The last time this came up, I did include Florida in the explanation.
“Cracker = boaster => poor tough” is well documented in the OED. The further connection between cracker and the Georgia penal colony is my unsubstantiated conjecture.
Florida was, of course, initially settled by Georgians.
Look, man, you don’t have to be old enough to remember Jim Crow to be affected by racism. I think people sort of like to believe that racism died the day that MLK was made a martyr. Wrong! The truth is, you don’t know what Chris Rock has experienced because of his color. And even if he was lucky enough to have never been racially mistreated, you don’t know what his parents, his friends, or his siblings have gone through.
Making assumptions about a man you don’t even know is not going to help you to understand race-relations.
you with the face:
Obviously, if Chris Rock is cracking jokes about black or white people, racism isn’t dead.
But, does being discriminated against give one lisence to discriminate?
Did the actions of now old or dead white people validate the statement: “Those white people are all racists.”?
Here’s an analogy:
You’re the new kid in your fifth grade class. You get tired of being ignored so you start teasing the other kids in the class. None of them are really bothered by it, though, because they know they “belong” and that you don’t. Who cares what a isolated punk thinks? But when the entire class turns around and starts making fun of you, you’re devasted. It seems like suddenly everyone in the world HATES you.
If you don’t like black people making fun of white people, you can simply change the TV channel or go to another comedy club. But if it suddenly becomes cool for white people to make fun of black people, your options for escape are limited. Back in the day, it used to be cool for comedians (and everyone else) to laugh at black people. If everyone HATES you, you become devasted because you’re constantly confronted with a distorted image of self. But if an isolated subculture hates you, who cares? You can simply turn to mainstream culture and see yourself positively represented.
Jim who? You also don’t have to be black to be affected by racism. I may not know what Chris Rock experienced in his life. Does he know what all the white people he bashes have experienced in theirs? His family may or may not have been racially mistreated, that still doesn’t justify his racial slurs. My Grandfather was mistreated by the Germans in WW2, does that give me the right to hate all Germans or discriminate against them? This road goes both ways.
But, monstro, is it morally okay for comedians like Chris Rock to display this racism? Are you saying that it’s okay because the message isn’t being propogated? I don’t get it.
I really hope that that was a smart-assed quip.
Actullay a different definition of “cracker” I’ve read somewhere comes from England in the 16th century. It described the lower class of people there becing that “crakers” consisted of their main diet. I’ll do a google on it later.
And Monstro is correct BTW. Don’t like what Chris Rock is saying? Just turn the channel to “Friends” or “The Shield.”
Also the humor Chris Rock (and others) do isin’t only aginst whites, it’s mostly aginst blacks with a few white jokes thrown in. (“I’d wish they’d let me join the Ku Klux Klan!”)
I think what this all comes down to is, someone who claims racism against blacks, latinos, asians, etc. is wrong but racism against whites is ok for whatever reason, is a hypocrite! Period.
What racism? The times I’ve seen Rock, he was laying waste to everyone. He pokes fun at the stereotypes of all the races. I have never seen him embrace the stereotypes or use the stereotypes except to exaggerate them to make them appear ridiculous.
I have not seen all his material, so, I suppose, he might be offensive in some routines, but simply making a joke about a white person does not make him racist. I have seen Leno and O’Brian aim barbs at situations involving blacks without being condemned. As long as they are not trying to reinforce the old “dumb, lazy, dishonest” stereotypes, I doubt that they will get in trouble. Why should Rock have to eliminate white material from his routines?
Why, yes it was. Thank you for noticing.
Is anything comedians do morally okay? The best comedy–IMHO–is full-front and honest. Save morals for the church, not for the microphone.
It seems as if you want everyone to agree that making fun of someone’s race is bad no matter who is doing it, but you’re not going to get this. Racism isn’t simply calling someone a “cracker” or making fun of their speech patterns. It’s about power. If you’re older, stronger brother calls you a punk-ass twerp, it hurts much more than if you’re baby sister calls you the same thing. Why? Because in one situation, you can’t fight back. In the other, you can. The same goes for white-black relations, or any relations where there’s a party with more power than the other.
IMHO, when black people tease white people, it’s extremely light and trivial, and often is self-deprecating. Most times, the idea is to simply compare “white” and “black” ways of doing things, so that blacks can laugh at themselves. A popular topic of black stand-ups is black parenting vs. white parenting. They portray white parenting as gentle, loving, and lenient. Black parenting is portrayed as brutal, violent, and border-line abusive (DL Hughley does a funny bit on this where he talks about Hot Wheel Tracks). Which group is being demeaned? It sure doesn’t seem like white people are.
Depends. If your talking about workplace situations,basic civil rights (eating in resturants for exmple) and such, yes you are correct.
As far as comedy/jokes go, your correct if the entire focus of a rant is ONLY on one group. n other words if ALL of Chris Rock’s jokes where about whites and they were all negativily portrayed, then yea, he’d be no different from one of the Klan rally idiots. But if he makes fun of EVERYONE (black/white/pureto rican/fat people,ect) then you can;t claim anything,because everyone is offended (or amused or both.)
Spongebob Squarepants had a good episoide about this same thing. Spongbob became a comedian and begin cracking jokes about his “girl-friend” Sandy the Squirrel. They were basically the same as Hillbilly jokes. So she called him on it, and after he changed his tune, he bgan making fun of everyone including himself.
That’s horse-pucky.
Sure, you could change the channel… but you also have the same right to bitch about it.
Of course you can say whatever non-threatening thing you want, white or black, because we have freedom of speech. If you think I’m a jackass for being offended, then that’s fine… but I think you’re utterly ignorant. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s COMPLETELY ok that you don’t seem to mind what some people might consider racist remarks towards whites. Just don’t expect people to draw the same lines as you. If other people are offended, and vocal about it, it’s only to educate others that it’s… well, hurtful to them. We can’t ‘stop’ people from saying whatever they want to.
I’m personally a fan of Dave Chappelle. I think he has a pretty good balance of black and white profiling, (from what I’ve seen). In fact, there are times where I think he holds back too much. From what I’ve seen, he’s tried to explain that black people have their ‘quirks’ too, right before making a joke about white people. I think he tries to be as sensitive as he can be, without giving up the “white people/black people” shtick. Sometimes I wouldn’t mind if he would just tell the joke whiteout explaining himself, only because he makes fun of everyone anyway. I really don’t mind Chris Rock as much as I had before I’ve seen him talk about this very subject on talk shows, and I THINK even an episode of King of the Hill. I think, (not 100% sure), that’s he’s basically said that everyone has the right to tell a joke, and everyone has the right not to laugh at it.
I know it’s starting to sound as if I don’t care what people, (not just blacks), say about white people. Well, to an extent, I don’t. But there are personal lines that I think are crossed ALL too often. And if I want to wine about it, that’s my choice. It’s also my choice to consider anyone who has a problem that, an asshole. Of course, they can feel the same about me.
Its NOT as if I’m not equally, PERSONALLY offended by racism towards blacks. What I consider racism, however, may differ from what other people think.
by Jus Checkin:
Can you provide a cite or even paraphrase some of this white folk “bashing” that you speak of? I’ve seen a lot of Chris Rock material and I can’t recall ever seeing him do this.
Since you haven’t even established that Chris Rock hates whites or discriminates them, I think you are creating strawmen. As pointed out by monstro, Rock doesn’t make fun of whites without doing the same to blacks.
This was supposed to be a smart-assed quip? You might want to do a better job at making that more obvious next time, or else people will start questioning your grasp on American history.
Sure, except that has nothing whatsoever to do with this debate. We are not talking about whether black people have the right to hate all white people or discriminate against them. We are talking about whether it should be more acceptable for black people to tell jokes about white people than vice-versa. I don’t think anyone here has advocated racial hatred of any sort.
And, yes, it would be more acceptable for you to tell jokes about Germans than for Germans to tell jokes about Jews*, especially if you lived in Germany - because German antisemitism is a greater threat to a German Jew than Jewish anti-German prejudice is to a white German. It’s not cool for someone in a position of power to make fun of those over whom they hold power; it’s much harder for those on the bottom of the heap to be sure whether it’s really just a joke, and much more is at stake for them if it’s not. It’s still not okay for you to hate all Germans, though. See how that works?
*(if your grandfather was not Jewish, please substitute whatever persecuted group he belonged to here.)
If a comedian advocates beating whites to death or jokingly refers to them as white devils, then I will join you in feeling offended.
But if a comedian makes fun of white people because they like egg salad or they clap on the 1 and 3, I will laugh. And laugh hard. If that makes me racist, then so be it.
The argument that it’s wrong for blacks to make fun of whites is a fallacy because of past oppression or even present oppression is a fallacy. If you’re going to dish it out, you better be able to take it. I think that the aforementioned argument is a very lame excuse.
Indeed.