Well, you have a pretty biased sample here. Most people just use the internet for their work or daily lives. They might post an occasional political statement on FB, but for the most part they aren’t going to take the time to comment a lot on internet fora. The people who spend a lot of time arguing with strangers on the internet are going to contain a much higher percentage of cranks and weirdos*–including hard core racists–than the general population.
*Present company excluded, of course!
I wish someone would let me know at what point is it reasonable for someone to freak out by the sheer hate speech out there. Because I don’t hang out on “mosh pits”, and yet I keep getting kicked in the face by the shittiness.
It’s funny how people will talk about how divisive certain politicans are or how divisive certain protest movements are, but if you talk about how divisive the internet chatter is, well, it’s your own damn fault for not ignoring it.
I’m actually starting to sympathize with college kids who want “safe spaces”.
Sorry for the rambling. Like I said, the hate has just been really wearing me down lately.
What does anyone expect if you open up yourself to a potential audience that can say what they want, anonymously and with absolutely no consequences? And this is an audience of millions, practically unlimited, and by the law of large numbers you are certain to find some that will behave like arseholes.
Never mind the fact that a fair proportion are sub-adolescent numbskulls who can barely stop wanking long enough to unstick the keys and hammer out whatever hurtful bollocks they can bring to mind. It’s the verbal equivalent of throwing popcorn in the cinema. They do it because they can and because they want a reaction.
As hard as it is and as unfair as it seems you just have to ignore them. Easy to say, hard to do but ultimately the only thing that works.
If you want an area of free-association that is also free of abuse and insult then I’m afraid you are in for a long and fruitless wait.
I really try to limit myself to this board, because it is moderated. I know you say you don’t hang out on “mosh pits”, but just like in real life, if you walk into a place that seems fine but then turns ugly, what do you do? Me, I leave and don’t go back. It’s the same online, yah?
Definitely noticeable. Reddit forums, especially for my city (it’s also a very common local attitude off-line), have a few posters who determinedly post race-baiting articles along the lines of “look at what this black person did” complete with self-serving responses similar to “I didn’t use any racial slurs, how am I racist? I’m just posting news.” when someone complains. Once an online community goes down that road, it drives away reasonable posters, further amplifies the visibility of the racist posts, and becomes a self-reinforcing cycle.
To be clear: I am barely internet literate. I do not hang out many places besides the SDMB. From what I have seen, I would consider the (I guess I assume unmoderated) Comments Section of ANY website to be a “most pit.” I would not seek reasonable conversation in any comments section.
I’d love to hear otherwise - are there websites with reasonable Comments sections?
The unfortunate reality is that, on the Internet, 9 out of 10 times, the racists “win.”
If a racist gets a lot of “likes” and “thumbs-up,” they “win.” Doesn’t matter if 1,000 people choose to ignore him, he’ll only see the 100 who did like his words.
If you try to calmly, rationally, debunk the racist, you’re giving him the attention he likes. You’ve fed him. Racist wins.
If you respond to him in kind, with flaming vitriol, you give him in the impression that he’s a noble warrior for truth and you are the enemy who can’t handle truth, and he is a shining knight, and the racist wins.
I do try to go for the “explain the truth to them calmly and factually” when I can, but it’s like trying to stop a fire hose or a flood with a towel. It’s pretty futile. There’s also the saying about how a lie travels halfway around the world when truth is still tying its shoelaces.
It’s common enough on Reddit that there are subreddits devoted to pointing it out. And not just the “evil” ShitRedditSays (who I actually have problems with due to their trolly nature and the fact that I got banned for saying that prison rape is not okay, even for child molesters).
I actually find that, outside the Dope, most racist (or other -ist) comments don’t anger me. But they do here. And, when I’m not angered, I’m usually really good at addressing stuff like this in a way that mostly gets people to listen (unless they were trolls, which is obvious by the very next response.)
The pattern seems to be if they are written in a well thought out manner, or just obvious assholery. I noticed this on FiveThirtyEight recently with a troll I normally have blocked (but I wasn’t logged in.)
I like George Carlin as much as the next guy, but I hate this quote. Because it is wrong. The average of a population is not always in the middle. It is only in the middle if you are talking about a symmetric population. And I have never seen any objective evidence that human intelligence follows a symmetric distribution.
Shorter version: Mean does not necessarily equal median.
Not really. That would basically mean never going anywhere else online. Racists show up everywhere–even here. And if you get enough of them, then it looks like everyone’s agreeing.
But you have to realize that online communities are HUGE. To the point that they overwhelm your brain.
I remember back when I thought everyone here was a total asshole. But it was just a loud few (many of whom I am happy are no longer around.)
As far as I can tell, symmetric is the default in these sorts of things. What reason do you have to propose that it is not symmetric? The IQ tests sure assume it is. Average is set at 100, and is always the top of a symmetric graph. I believe it is also normalized, but I may be mistaken.
The one thing I could think might work is if you think there are enough profoundly mentally disabled people to pull the distribution the other direction. But it would seem that would be easy to prove.
That quote seems to better argue against argumentum adversus populum: the idea that they “laughed at Galileo.”
And I don’t really think that monstro thinks they are right. She’s just upset that so many people apparently agree with what is obviously wrong and hateful.
My suggestion is to remember just how vast the Internet actually is, and how often like-minded people clump together. Those people upvoting or liking are probably a lower percentage than in the people you meet day to day. Meet one racist a year, and you’ve probably met a higher percentage of those you’ve met than you’ve seen online.
Well, unless you intentionally go to sites that are definitely racist.
I understand why this belief is so prevalent. But there is no empirical evidence backing it up.
I notice it. I don’t confront it because I do not believe that racism is rational. You can’t talk someone out of it. It isn’t based on facts, but on feelings. Feelings are not liable to reason. And they are contagious. Racism spreads like bedbugs.
And yes, it does impact me, and no, I don’t think it’s harmless steam. Most of the time, I soldier on anyway. Sometimes I can’t. And sometimes I’m afraid. The rise of the alt-right owes a lot to the internet. It isn’t a coincidence.
Many sites have gotten rid of comment sections. I think that is the way of future. Many people who would make racist comments wouldn’t go to an explicitly racist site.
If you are that thinned skin then but that’s your own problem. Words are words.
No, it is not just unmoderated comments sections.
It’s also threads that I read on message boards. People describing all the racist shit that their friends and relatives say in private moments. It’s also the replies to those threads, wherein people apologize or hand-wave with pseudo-intellectual “that’s not racism, that’s prejudice” bullshit rationalizations.
It’s the stuff I read here as well. Not necessarily every day, but often enough. This is a board where you can catch a warning for calling someone a racist, but it is totally okay to express racist beliefs and ideas.
Call me a glutton for punishment, but I have found that comment sections aren’t always bad, even when the moderation is loose. Just like in any online forum, you can find some terrific commentary embedded at the bottom of an article. Sometimes readers provide useful information that allows for critical analysis of the article’s content. A lot of times I don’t know enough about a subject to really have an informed opinion, so reading through comments can sometimes help me fill in the gaps so I don’t get all outraged unecessarily (or alternatively, they can help wake me up to what’s going on).
I enjoy reading other people’s opinions on stuff. I like Yelp. I like consumer reviews. I like reading all the happy posts on YouTube in response to a funny video or an awesome song. Just like I like coming here and hanging out with ya’ll. I feel like I learn so much by reading what’s on other people’s minds. So when you intimate that places where people congregate online to share thoughts and ideas are “moshpits”, well, I just don’t know what to say. I don’t consider the comment section of the NY Times to be a moshpit, and I don’t think the Times would like that characterization given its commitment to moderation. But sometimes those bad comments still sneak through. When they are ignored, well, it just makes me feel like everyone is silently agreeing with them.
I don’t want to segregate myself from common places or harden myself any more than I already am.
I sometimes confront it in my own way, which is to mock them mercilessly. It’s good practice, I suppose, albeit not challenging. Clay pigeons.
The half-wits whose only joy in life is posting atrociously spelled anonymous non-sequiturs about thugs and apes and Obozo to unrelated news articles are unlikely to understand a nuanced insult, let alone appreciate it.
Yes, they are— even when flippant, unhelpful and sloppily arranged.
This all makes sense; thank you for context. I ready the NYTimes daily, but rarely venture to the Comments section. Perhaps I will check them out a bit for a while.
Within that context, yeah, I don’t know what to say. I have come to believe that Humans are efficient enough to reach puberty and procreate; beyond that, all bets are off. I often frame my good days are when I make a better choice 16% of the time when the rest of the folks around me appear to be in the 14%-15% range. We process inside/outside, with/other, tribes, nationality, etc., at about the same rate of efficiency, near as I can tell. So it goes.
What is fascinating is this internet age we are in - we are seeing this inefficiency in our faces every day. With near-full surveillance, ubiquitous distribution for primary info and reactions (e.g., Comments Sections!), and a trackable history, we are moving into uncharted territory.
It is so There, as you point out - how will it be affected as we observe, obsess, protest and act because of it?
Which is frankly what I do, in terms of posting and responding to posts and comments.
As a friend often remarks, when a dog barks, do you answer?
I see both racism and misogyny all the time on the internet, and yes, you get so fucking tired. I understand that feeling, at least from the perspective of a woman.
You’re allowed to be upset by it. If you only ever saw one terrible racist thing written, you’re allowed to be upset. Or angry or sad or whatever. I’m not going to tell you what you can and can’t feel.
And I don’t think you’re obligated to subject yourself to it because of some person’s lack of empathy or understanding that people with so-called ‘‘thin skin’’ are often the ones who get shit slung at them every day of their lives. Those of us hurt by the slings and arrows of words are also the most likely to step up when someone else is hurting. So to imply that is a weakness is bullshit.
I have more thoughts but I’m going to start a new thread.