Eep. I really did want to keep an open mind about this, and I could still kinda sorta see there’s a *possibility *that it’s not racially motivated, but I stand by my first incredulous reaction that the guy is claiming no awareness of what could possibly be wrong with posting the photo.
An image of the tweet is shown here.
If anyone can’t see the link, it doesn’t portray the actual royal couple. It’s an old photo of two posh looking people from circa 1920s, with the woman holding the hand of a small chimpanzee standing dressed in an overcoat and bowler hat, with Baker’s comment “Royal baby leaves hospital”.
I share your sentiments entirely. Baker is either a racist or an utterly thoughtless fool, either way he’s not qualified to be a senior BBC broadcaster.
I think you’re walking a tightrope with that excuse.
A cartoon showing the baby as a tiger cub, parents doing backflips and Prince Charles as an inept ringmaster might’ve been acceptable. :dubious:
Hardly, My own children were referred to in that way, as a term of endearment from birth, well before they had the ability to be active or “naughty” The first two baby-gro’s that my daughter had were “rabbits loves carrots” and “watch out - little monkey at work” with the relevant pictures.
I mean, it really isn’t an uncommon theme or uncommon usage
So we differ in our experiences of how the word is used in the UK (although I’ll point out that I *am *in the UK and *have **used *it in the UK) but I’m leaving it there. These debates never end productively.
I’m British too, and as you say neither of our individual subjective experiences are definitive.
But it doesn’t rest only on that. I wasn’t just stating my own opinion. I haven’t seen anyone else in the U.K. (press, social media, whatever) suggest that the “little monkey” metaphor is a credible innocent interpretation for that image. Including Baker himself, who claimed a far more obscure “circus animal” interpretation.
The woman in that image really does not resemble Markle, does she? One of the reasons Baker’s explanation is believable to me if he doesn’t have a track record of being a shit stirrer. I don’t see any reason to lampoon anyone’s child ever though, so in that sense his “mind not diseased” attestation doesn’t track.
I don’t think his explanation of his own state of mind is unbelievable, in the sense that the only alternative is that he wanted to be insta-fired for racism. But racism is not just about intent, and the image in this context is extremely racist. It’s a serious problem if he’s so utterly insensitive and stupid not to see it immediately. If he were a plumber, perhaps he should not have been fired. But he’s a senior BBC broadcaster.
OK, but just for clarification before I go, the “little monkey” trope was not something Baker raised as mitigation. My first mentioning it was in relation to a challenge from Dewey Finn somewhere upthread that implied comparing children to monkeys in the UK was rare or due to racism.
And Baker, as a lifelong Millwall fan, would have seen more of that than most I suspect.
Yeah, could totally have been an entirely innocent coincidence. Still, he had to go, cause it is a pretty staggering set of coincidences:
- he has never before thought to compare royal babies to apes
- he has never before thought to compare any other celebrities to animals - not Andy Murray as a horse or Lewis Hamilton to a lion or anyone else to anything else
- he has watched the blanket media coverage of this mixed-race woman, including frequent images of her black mother
- and what popped into his mind with sufficient force to need him to tweet it to the whole world is…ape
- while composing his tweet, it didn’t occur to him that posting gratuitous insults about total strangers comparing them to chimps might be insulting our out of character for him, because… reasons
Actually, if I were him I would be thinking hard how that just happened. I certainly would not try to excuse myself by claiming that it couldn’t be racism because I “don’t have a diseased mind”. If he isn’t consciously a racist, then that’s an assertion currently unsupported by evidence.
Others MMV.
Sandwich
Right, and I was countering your suggestion that the widespread “little monkey” metaphor implies that generic reference to monkeys/apes in such a context is so widespread that it allows an obvious innocent interpretation of that photo. The fact that didn’t occur even to Baker as a possible innocent interpretation of that photo (whatever he originally intended) in mitigation during a shitstorm does speak to how credible that interpretation really is.
Let’s put it this way - if he’d posted that photo in response to the birth of a baby to a lily-white couple, I think most people would have just been scratching their heads, it would just seem a bit weird. There is no natural interpretation of that photo other than racism.
If, prior to this tweet, I’d been asked to compile a list of the UK’s most innocuous celebrities, Danny Baker would’ve been pretty near the top. The idea that he’d knowingly pull a racist joke on twitter just doesn’t compute. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but given his complete lack of prior form I think stupidity is a more likely explanation than racism.
At best, he was incredibly stupid; at worst, incredibly racist. And I don’t know which is worst.
I always consider a red flag when someone says they can’t be racist. Part of being racially aware is realizing that racism is there on a subconscious level for everyone. Even those who work their hardest to not be racist will occasionally have a racist thought. What makes you not racist is that you dismiss that thought.
And, especially if you’re in the public eye, you should think about what you say, and think about whether subconscious racism snuck in. If you’re going to use a simian reference about humans, then it should be automatic to consider whether or not it might be misinterpreted at racist, even if that is not your intent. Heck, if it can be, you should wonder if some of your subconscious racism snuck in.
People seem to forget that we are largely not in conscious control over everything we think and do. WE all have thoughts we didn’t mean to have or say and do things we didn’t mean to. If it happens, you need to apologize and try to make amends, not try and defend yourself. I get the natural desire not to accept that you could have thought that, but you need to accept that you can.
No one is righteous, not even one.
What Danny Baker did was obscene, IMO.
Although are we all forgetting how Prince Harry called one of his fellow comrades in the army a Paki? This too was outrageous and let’s not forget how he dressed as Hilter at a fancy dress party.
As I say what Danny Baker was diabolical.
Danny Baker has always seemed pleasant enough, and intelligent, despite the sport-oriented geezer banter which seems to be his schtick. I’m certain he wouldn’t have tweeted that with racist intent as he’d have known it was a shameful sackable offence. I think it was a dig at posh people/royals and the media circus which surrounds royal births; and it’s quite possible there was unconscious racism underlying his picture choice which he realised too late.
My own two (white, of English and Irish descent) girls were, and are, referred to as “monkeys” all the time by me (American), and by their mother (Canadian).
That said, I cannot see how anyone in the world could possibly not see that the depiction of a child of one black parent (and let’s not get into the question of what constitutes “black” and whether or not Ms. Markle or Duchess whatever it is is “black” – she is perceived to be so, and has been the target of racist stuff in the past) as a monkey is *extremely *racist.
I don’t believe it. Not for a minute. Granted, I’m not British, and I have no idea who this guy is, but I don’t believe it.
Funny, given his track record, I would have thought it would be Prince Philip who said something awful.
Baker has a bit of a reputation for being “difficult” to work with, and he has form for publicly slagging off his employers. That might have made the BBC decision a little easier.
Before the marriage weren’t there racists in the UK condemning “the polluting” of the royal family with “Black blood”? Wasn’t that story covered by the BBC? Weren’t there other racism stories covered by the BBC, such as someone throwing bananas at Black soccer players? I’m not buying the “I didn’t know” excuse.
He’s not saying “I didn’t know.” He’s saying it never crossed his mind and was unconnected to his actions. Either way, it was thoughtless and punishable.