Waah waah. Yes, I call racist positions racist. It doesn’t matter, and it has never mattered, why one holds a racist position (such as the position that black people are, on average, inherently less intelligent than other races). It’s a racist position no matter what evidence you think you have, or how certain you are. That’s always a racist position, using the present definition of the word. It’s also true that there’s no solid evidence to support it, but that’s immaterial as to whether it’s a racist position or not.
If, at some point in the future, there actually is solid evidence in support of a racist position- for example, the genes responsible for high intelligence have been conclusively identified, and individuals from certain population groups/races/ethnicities are more or less likely to have these genes, then we might re-open a conversation on the use of the word “racist”. But we’re not there- not even close. So it’s a racist position.
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Yes, I call racist positions racist. It doesn’t matter, and it has never mattered, why one holds a racist position (such as the position that black people are, on average, inherently less intelligent than other races). It’s a racist position no matter what evidence you think you have, or how certain you are. That’s always a racist position, using the present definition of the word. It’s also true that there’s no solid evidence to support it, but that’s immaterial as to whether it’s a racist position or not.
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Not by my definition. Is it sexist to say women are inherently better than men at giving birth?
Racist and sexist have different meanings, and the biological differences between men and women are not comparable to any differences between races/populations/ethnic groups.
No, no, and no… geez, how many times do we have to go over this? Racism is and has always been about dehumanization. The traits historically linked to dehumanization are intelligence and moral behavior, and related characteristics. It is racist to claim that one race/group/etc is inherently superior or inferior, on average, in one of those traits linked to dehumanization.
“Racist” is an adjective/noun that applies only to people (and claims by people), and constructs made up of people like societies, cultures, etc. So no.
Okay, the claims I offered a few posts up are not, in your opinion, racist. And you also are of the opinion that nature cannot be racist. We’re on the same page so far.
Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you also agreed that if we suddenly learned—conclusively and to your satisfaction—that there indeed is a gene that aligns with higher intelligence and that it is more predominant in, say, Asians than it is in Blacks, that a claim having to do with Asians, generally, being more intelligent than Blacks would not be racist. Right so far?
No, it would certainly still be a racist claim. In such a scenario, it might be wise to reconsider how we use this word, and its definition might change. But that’s just speculation.
Saying one race is, on average, inherently less intelligent than another is a racist thing to say (using the present definition and use of the word), no matter why one believes it. And I think this (and the corresponding very negative connotation of the word “racist”) is a very good thing- pretty much everyone who has made a racist claim throughout history thought they had facts on their side. Racist claims should be called out as racist, even if the one making the claim really and truly believes it to be so!
Okay, but slight clarification. In my hypothetical, it is an established fact with no doubt about its validity whatsoever. Even you are 100% convinced.
Now keeping that in mind, how it it possible that someone relaying what would be a fact of nature be racist? I don’t see how you simply wave a wand and deem a part of reality racist, after you just said nature can’t be racist. so just relaying the fact is racist? Not seeing it.
Wait, let me ask you this: again, given the hypothetical is someone who relays that fact necessarily racist? Meaning, I can see how a member of the KKK might utter those words as part of his racist screed and you may consider them racist due to association and/or intent, but how about if a scientist uttered those words to another scientist? Racist? Necessarily so?
Intelligence is a rather poor thing to rank, because it is somewhat subjective and culturally biased. If you live in the Serengeti, intelligence is measured by your survival skills, in a way that integral calculus is not especially valued. Racism is basically a synonym for ethnocentrism, because we are generally more favorably disposed toward people who dress and act like us (are culturally compatible), and measuring intelligence itself is an exercise in cultural bias, because the tests must needs be framed in the context of their native culture (note that culture and language are nearly inextricable from each other).
So, what you are suggesting is comparing individuals based on some rather arbitrary standard, which historically has not been very reliable in the first place. You simply cannot devise any sort of method that could effectively demonstrate the kind of thing you suggest, and even if there were a neutral measurement that could account for cultural variation, I would wager whatever I had that it would fail to identify racial markers (assuming we could ever get past disagreeing on its validity).
The word “racist” has a definition and common usage. The word applies to people, claims by people, and constructs made up of people- and it can’t apply to concepts like nature. If someone makes a claim that fits the definition and common usage, it doesn’t matter why they make it- even if everyone on earth agrees with them- using the current definition and common use, then the claim is racist no matter what.
I haven’t, and am still not, making any judgments about people (unless I slipped somewhere)- it’s not my intention to call any individuals racist. I’m only calling certain claims racist. If a scientist says black people are inherently less intelligent on average, then that scientist has made a racist claim. But I don’t know what’s going on in that scientist’s mind, so I would not call him a racist.
I would rather read what your experiences are than what the rest of the thread was instead.
would you maybe start your own thread about this? (not in the pit, I’m thinking)
You’re ignoring the hypothetical. Assume that there is an actual intelligence/aptitude gene and it has been identified and studied and fully understood.