Racist plays race card

The BBQ Pit
61

Godwinize much?

Last time I checked this country has a fairly decent set of rights and freedoms. Hell our federal government has finally recognized the rights of homosexuals to legally marry each other.

Now with hate laws we have put a limitation on a narrowly defined type of expression. The fact is there haven’t been mass round ups of pinheads saying something racist.

I agree political speech should not be curbed but disguising your empty headed bigotry as some form of politics just doesn’t cut it for me.

62

That’s the free speech I want preserved.

63

euphimism

Where do you get that? From the link in the OP

Now, I suppose that in a technical sense you are correct that he just wanted to ‘shut the Jews up’ - since silence has long been a euphemism for death

64

Of course – as does every sensible person. That’s why Canada’s hate speech legislation applies to nothing but the the public propagation of the most pernicious and unfounded hatred against people based exclusively on their skin colour, ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation.

There is no absolute guarantee of freedom of speech, anywhere. Even in the U.S., certain utterances are criminalized because it’s common sense that the harm that they may cause outweighs the benefit of allowing their expression. In the U.S., you’ve had the (rather vague) standard tests of “clear and present danger,” and later “imminent lawless action,” which is the current test.

History shows us that scapegoating minorities leads to acts of violence against them. The law is a check against this. In my opinion, it is certain to reduce harm to innocent people and thus make life better for the public in general, which is what good legislation should do.

Here is an example of the sort of speech that this law covers. (WARNING: Extremely offensive, racist crap.)

It’s a song with lyrics that spread the meme that welfare benefits are extended to african-americans and withheld from caucasians, thanks to MLK and the NAACP, that it’s black people’s fault that white people are poor. The narrative voice cheerfully suggests that shooting black people in the head is the way to correct this imaginary situation.

An absolutist approach to free speech means that it’s (of course) legal to publish and distribute this song. There’s nothing illegal about putting it on the juke box in a bar. If a stupid drunk who’s lost his job to drink, used up his welfare bennies and is pissed that he can’t afford to drink anymore gets a case of the “thems” after hearing the song and murders a man, well, that’s just too bad. He oughtn’t to have been so suggestible.

Racist propaganda has a social cost. Sometimes rights need to be balanced. The 13th Amendment was regarded by many as an inexcusable abridgement of some people’s property rights. Well, yeah, it took some rights away. It was still good legislation.

Individual rights end where other folks’ noses begin. Canada’s hate speech laws are based on the idea that the narrowly-defined type of speech that they apply to results in real harm to Canadians if allowed.

65

His speech was peaceful. He did not, as far as I can see, say that he thought people should go out and kill Jews. He said he thought their past murder was a good idea. There’s a difference. Clear and present danger of inciting violence is very different to expressing sickeningly abhorrent views. This law is specifically NOT about speech liable to incite violence. It is instead about incitement of hatred, and they are very different things.

And bottom line, I am not a fan of a law allow people to be put in prison because the government or the majority does not find what they are saying ‘decent.’ I don’t think many in the gay community, for example, would be particularly encouraged by such a standard, either.

Nope, I understand what you are saying. And to repeat, seeing as you are not understanding what I am saying, apart from not being an American, I think this law is wrong regardless of the country that passes it. Just because the majority of a country supports something doesn’t make it right. They do things wrong in America, they do things wrong in Canada, they do things wrong in the UK. I don’t feel any problem calling it as I see it. Simply saying that’s what people want does not mean it becomes a good idea. Now, of course my opinion doesn’t mean there is an obligation on Canada to change its laws. I think they failed to get that memo.

66

It was in response to his repeated use of the same in this discussion. I probably should have put apostrophes around the word, so take a pill. I wouldn’t want to get your knickers in a bunch over it.
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Good for us. And the only reason they have those rights is because someone saw that it was wrong to stop them from exercising those rights. Same here. People have the right to spout off on all sorts of things I don’t like. We just don’t fully recognize that fact in Canada, though.

Excuse me? Where have I been a bigot here? You must be confusing me with the masterchief, I think.

67

Yeah, usually when you are dead you’ve stopped being an annoyance. Probably why it is called the final solution.

See, we Canadians tend to think we are superior, take a look at masterchief’s postings for example. He couldn’t put out an argument without slagging his opponent in the discussion for being a hypocrite. He was pretty much telling him to shut up until he got his house in order first.

As Matt_Mcl pointed out earlier, we are not adverse to banning those things we don’t like, not just hate speech. And considering that Matt and I are pretty much on the opposite sides of things politically, it is nice to know that there are somethings we can agree upon.

As to this case, I think this guy walks a very fine line between advocating hatred and acting upon that hatred. Enough so that even though I loath what he says, I would loath myself more stopping him from saying it. I’d rather have him spouting shit like that in the open so that all of us have the opportunity to counter it, than having it remain hidden as if we’ve just swept it under the rug where it can start to smell over time.

68

I am also in favour of this law. This man was a role model. Many First Nations (and people of other ethnicities) respected his opinion.

I’m not denying that the law COULD have bad consequence, but it HASN’T and I don’t think it will. I’ve heard of it being used twice; once against this gentleman and once threatened against a female political figure who suggested the 9/11 perpetrators were in the right.

That kind of shit our country can do without.

69

Oh, it’s perfectly ok when we do it. :rolleyes: Based on what I’ve said about how I feel about Canada’s hate speech laws why don’t you just take a guess on how I feel about the above.

Marc

70

As much as I disagree with the opinion that the 9/11 perps were in the right, I find it absolutely chilling that somebody can be threatened with the law for simply having an opinion. I don’t care how unpopular an opinion it is.

71

As pointed out above, she was not threatened for having an opinion. She was threatened for endorsing this opinion publicly: in speeches and to reporters.

72

Haha! most of you guys here are nuts! i mean you just gotta be. you guys are liberal bullies. you guys just jump on this issue and latch on to defend your idealism. Hell! So what if he’s a nazi! so what if he thinks jews should be exterminated! so what millions of americans and canadians died side by side during a war to halt nazism!

I’m black so guess what? I wouldnt be here right now if nazis won the war like THEY ALMOST DID. if it werent for hitler’s slip of re-routing bombers to bomb london instead of their bases who knows what couldve happened? but thats another topic. And you goddamn hippies or wanna-be intellectuals woulda been reading the mein kampf as a literature appreciation project.

what i just dont get is how you guys can rush out and tell me to ease up on nazis while the most racist shit goes down on your side of the continent. hey and canada has racism too…loads but hey we’re getting there just like you guys are supposed to. we’re just tryin to get closer to our utopian dream in the way we think best. get over it.

what about the black people tied up in your system. and i’ll scream if you give me the “take responsibility” jingle. you guys make me laugh! you let your hugely biased mainstream media to paint you a nice fiary tale story here and there about how blacks have so many opportunities and shit. HAH! dont make me laugh! again! i’ve been through compton’s rougher areas and i lived in the bahamas for a few years too. and yes the bahamas has ghettos and there is gang activity and drug smuggling before anyone gets cute.

what’s that you guys got set up to help the “brutha mans” out? affirmative action?! you set up a system where employers are forced to hire people based on their skin color not their integrity? then you want to call it equality in the workplace?!? lol lol…sounds like a band-aid situation. and if you’re FORCING someone to hire a person based on certain racial standards arent you repressing the freedoms of those that dont want to employ black people? :smiley: i dont see any other posts by you guys complaining about that. nazis are so much cooler. :wally
So you can live in your fairy tale world all you want and single out freedom loving passive citizens all the more. i guess we’re easier to pick on. but dont tell me im flawed when people suffer in your society because of bigotry.

73

I didn’t think they read her mind to find out what her opinion was.

It’s kinda the point of the free speech concept that one should be allowed to express and endorse their opinion without being threatened with legal action, even if it’s an unpopular one. Those are the only ones that need protection.

I’m not saying you guys should have a revolution over it or anything, I’m just stating my humble opinion on it. If you are fine with it, good on you.

74

Actually, yeah I have. It was a debate about scholarships restricted to African Americans that turned into an affirmative action debate as well. We’ve had many other debates on Affirmative action, as well. Many people don’t call it “quality in the workplace,” You should try to learn a little about what you’re saying before you say it. It helps out, really.

Aaaand…once again (just 'cause it’s fun):

8/38 != all

75

lol. i love it. you didnt refer to the arguement at all. “but id DO talk about tblack people. just look at my wonderful posts”. very funny. Point i was making was that all i hear is bitching about how canadians arent fair to nazis.

And look at what you guys tolerate/ show ignorance towards. and lol, just like evry other post ive ever been on, all i get is people dodging the issue that was brought up and make things all better with distracting links and all that.

Just look at any old 50’s/ 40’s footage showing alot of white american people talking about integration or equal rights. what about when the national guard had to be called to let students get taught at an all white high school those many years ago? you think those huge masses of people just went to another dimension? lol. give me a break. sorry to break it to ya kiddies, those same people run your country now :D.

lol. and the funny thing is, all those problems you guys have, you want to attack canadians that dont want nazis running around. all in the name of freedom? how’s that whole “let freedom reign” thing going for you guys over in iraq? i sure didn’t hear you guys complaining about my nazi-hating canadian friends signing up to help you guys fight your phony war.

76

haha. now watch the thread die because everyones waiting for their hero george bush to tell them what to think some more.
lol.

77

lolz! roflcopter. lollercoaster?

3/20 != all.

78

lol. man, i love stupid teenagers like you. at least people with that mentality. you just proved my point with the greatest of ease. cant find an arguement so you attack me with nonsense.
and you probably think you’re sooooooooo cool too. lol.

79

I could dry my hair with the breeze from that woosh.

80

“Oh responsi-bil-ity is goood and fine,
You’ve got yours and I’ve got mine
But feel free to give mine a pass,
Cause I’m just talkin outta my ass”
So scream dumbass.