IIRC a 6 cyl diesel option on the Ram 1500 for those looking for fuel economy and above average torque.
What’s the probability this engine will end up in other Mopars?
Dodge Durango and Dakota?
Select Jeeps
Base/Economy Chrysler 300, Dodge Charger, and Challenger?
it’s already in other vehicles, it’s offered in the Grand Cherokee.
and diesels don’t make “above average” torque. They just suck at making horsepower so their torque figures are larger in proportion.
ETA and just so I don’t come off as threadshitting, I’m all for diesels. they’re more thermally efficient even if they’re still harder to clean up after. it’s just that there’s nothing about the Diesel thermodynamic cycle which makes compliant engines more torquey. in fact, there are two points that disprove it. before turbocharging, comparing gas and diesel engines of similar displacement showed that gas engines could make as much torque and more horsepower than a diesel. after turbocharging, it tilted towards the diesel’s favor because diesels don’t have to worry about preignition/detonation, but with gasoline direct injection diesels don’t have that advantage anymore.
Huh…I knew an inline 5 cyl was available in the Liberty:rolleyes:
In any case, you think America is ready for Round 2 of diesels in passenger cars?
That’s not true. Horsepower is energy per time, torque is energy per revolution. Diesels have higher peak torque ratings because their higher compression ratio means they extract more energy from each combustion cycle (which is also why they’re more efficient).
The result is that diesels produce more power at low RPMs than the equivalent gas engine (which is all torque is), even if their peak power at max RPM is less due to their lower rev limit, and so it’s perfectly reasonable to say you’re looking to buy a diesel engine for “above average torque”.
Fuel costs definitely haven’t been working in their favor. Not only are they generally low at the moment, but the price of gasoline has come down way more than diesel. Playing around with the options at fueleconomy.gov they actually currently have the gas V6 having lower fuel costs than the diesel.
The general problem with the modern smog-compliant diesels is that they’re expensive options and they’re expensive to run. On pure economics, they simply don’t make sense. Big gasoline engines like the 5.7L Hemi are somewhat less efficient, but maintenance is much cheaper. The diesel would make sense with $8/gallon European fuel prices, but with even more typical American fuel prices your break even point is a long way off, assuming it actually ends up being cheaper to run at all.
Volkswagen has made a somewhat comfortable niche with their TDI engines, but that mostly depends on eco-cred (and I think some clever slotting of the TDI between the rental car natural aspirated 4 cylinder and the fast V6/turbo-4). Unless their new Italian overlords take Ram’s marketing in a very different direction than it has traditionally gone, I doubt the full size truck or SUV as environmental statement is going to happen anytime soon.
yes it is true. if you look at naturally aspirated engines, of similar displacement the gas engine will have at least as much torque and a lot more horsepower than a similarly sized diesel.
turbos initially changed the balance because with a diesel, you don’t have to worry about pre-ignition or detonation, so you can force-feed them a lot more air and burn more fuel to go with it.
the new crop of gas engines with direct injection and turbocharging (GTDI) are encroaching on diesel territory. the 3.5 liter Ecoboost in the F-150 makes 365 hp, 420 lb-ft of torque.
but they burn less fuel during each combustion cycle.
nope. not anymore. this is something promulgated by VW TDI owners who think they’re “tech savvy” because they’re the first people in the history of the world to discover this “diesel” thing.
In the UK, the balance for passenger cars is swinging back to petrol because of maintenance issues connected to all the environmental gubbins that they have bolted on to meet stringent rules.
One particular problem is the EGR filter which, on a car used for short commutes, keeps dropping the car into limp home mode.
I’ve got an Astra 1.9 Diesel - the high power one. It’s done 130K km and just about every thing that can fail has failed. Not impressed.
The EGR is screwed. I’ve had it replaced once and I now have to spend some time cleaning it out by hand. The flap valves - total cockamanie - slip in and out of working. Replacement is a completely new inlet manifold and actuators and sensors for something that changes idle emissions by a couple of percent!
The computer controlling the aircon has gone on strike, but to replace it I need to put in a new computer and buy a bunch of new keys and have some overpriced tech make it all work! We’re talking thousands!
If they didn’t have so much crap on the machine it would be a very handy unit!
Still I’m not as unlucky as some BMW owners who when their flap valves fail have to replace the entire top end because the flap valve fragments get ingested and destroy the valve train!
In comparison I retired my Mitsubish Galant 2 litre petrol recently at 350K km with outstanding reliability and endurance. The difference to the Astra is immense!
It’s not true in actual practice, because nobody builds normally aspirated diesels for cars anymore. Trucks, perhaps.
While diesel fuel might not, on it’s own, make more torque, diesel engines often do. Because diesel burns slowly, you cannot rev a diesel to get more power. Therefore diesel engines are often small bore x long stroke. Long stroke engines give more torque. From what I find online the Ecodiesel has a bore/stroke of 83x92mm and produces 420lbs of torque. The 3.6 liter gas engine has a bore/stroke of 96x83mm and only produces 269lbs of torque.
The 3.6 is also not turbocharged.
If the difference were because of the turbo, the 3.0 would make more power over the whole range but it doesn’t. The gas 3.6 makes 269 pound/ft of torque at 4100 rpm and 305hp at 6400 rpm. The smaller 3.0 diesel makes 420 pound/ft of torque at 2000(!) rpm and only 240hp at 3600 rpm. That’s some down low power.
unfortunately the Ford Ecoboost 3.5 has just as much as the 3.0 Ecodiesel:
IOW the 3.5 turbo gas engine makes just as much torque but a lot more horsepower, and is only 500cc larger.
which is why I said what I said above about GTDI engines encroaching on diesel territory.
Well, the point I was trying to make is that where in the power band an engine makes its power is more a function of the design of the motor, than the fuel. Generally speaking diesel motors are designed to make their power down low, gas motors are designed to make their power higher in the rev range.