If it was only that, it would have probably sounded like Phil Ochs. Ugh, a million times Ugh!. I am glad it wasn’t. The only thing worse than political Punk Rock that takes itself seriously is mainstream Christian Rock. The only person that I can think of that did it well is Jello, and even then, he didn’t write the lyrics to most of my favorite Dead Kennedys songs.
The Ramones have the firmest claim to being the first Punk band, IMHO. Even then, it’s totally beside the point, and fairly meaningless argument to boot. We might as well argue how many of them could dance on the head of a pin.
Well I was ready to join a fun discussion but this post shut it down for me. I disagree with your premise and if I’m not allowed to explain why I don’t like them under this narrow context, then I guess I’d prefer not to engage other than to directly answer your above questions: I don’t like The Ramones. I feel their look was contrived and marketed and, as I don’t care much for pop, I don’t like their music.
So - you disagree that the Ramones are synonymous with Punk in the mainstream? If so, how come?
Beyond that, sounds like you don’t like them. That’s cool; your call.
Or are you saying you like debating the What is Punk question? If so, then, yeah, my post dumped on that. Hey, start a different thread; sounds like other folks may want to join in…I just find that question maddening…
Jeebus, we’re hijacking a thread about “Do you like the Ramones” with “What is Punk”. They came up with their own sound and look. What could be more punk?
Aww, hell, let’s take this elsewhere, and leave this thread to fighting about whether you like The Ramones. Because they empirically rock, Punk or not.
Rubbish. I love punk, and I don’t have any time for the Ramones (hatred is a bit strong for the indifference I feel) - they just happen to do absolutely nothing for me.
Most early US punk is the same way - Television, NYDolls, all that CBGB noise. I feel nothing for them. I do love pre-punk stuff like VU, The Stooges and MC5, though. But mostly, from the actual '74-'80 era, I like British punk. Pistols, Damned, Clash, Banshees…
The Ramones were a light hearted, fun, cartoon band with powerful, simple poppie music - not punk - but a refreshing style at the time. Here were a bit of a self parody, not too serious with seriously good music.
Yeah, all good one man’s stoopid is another’s hilarity.
Writing the perfect pop melody is really hard; the Ramones succeeded at it more than most. And to spark a whole 'nother kerfuffle - please, take it to the What is Punk? Thread - Green Day, punk or not, write great tight melodic pop songs using the language of punk. Really hard to do with consistency.
Have always been a fan. Even saw them at Hammerjacks in Baltimore. I think it was 1990.
I think the real genius lies in their compositions. They’re so simple and minimalistic, yet so good. Ever try to write a *good *song using only three chords? It’s much harder than you think.
And… we can thank Dee Dee for it. IMO, he wrote the best songs, and the best lyrics. He was truly gifted. Too bad he was a junkie.
Good description. I also think “cartoonish” is applicable.
They successfully portrayed themselves as street thugs/losers/pinheads, but I often wonder if it was all a ruse. In real life, were they really that way? Or did they adopt the pinhead image for marketing purposes?
Their first five albums were good. They went downhill after that. IMO they should have broke up after Pleasant Dreams.
Well, real people are often cartoonish. The Ramones for the most part, were who they pretended to be. There’s a very good documentary on them out there, when I saw it was struck by how much they really were the cartoon they presented themselves as.
I think you’re probably referring to this documentary that I mentioned earlier. I thought it was well done and gave a lot of insight into the members of the band. Joey and Johnny’s relationship was very interesting.
This. They were like a blast of fresh air after years of turgid disco music and pretentious art rock. I was never a huge fan of their music, but a couple of Ramones songs always made great additions to mix tapes. Though not a huge fan, I had such great appreciation for what they were doing that I wrote and recorded a homage to them called Joey’s Not Here, which you can hear here, ya hear? http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=6816&songID=3444266
No, I’m not interested in defining Punk. Defining any music will always lead to squabbles.
However, I disagreed with this from your earlier post: "given that to the "main, crossover population of today, “Punk” is pretty much synonomous to “The Ramones” - their look, their musical formula."*
Not defining Punk is not the same as saying I think The Ramones are ‘synonomous’ with it. To my ear they are not punk, in sound or attitude. That said however, I don’t hate them. I just don’t think enough of them to take them seriously.
So you’re saying that if you polled people who were casually engaged in music at best - or just exposed to older music via commercials and such - if you asked them to name an original Punk band, most would not say The Ramones and The Sex Pistols, with The Clash a ways behind in third? Of course they would.
