OK, I’m sure anybody opening this thread is aware that Joey Ramone died today. This, along with a couple of the Beatles threads in this forum lately, got me thinking: are the Ramones the most influential rock group after the Beatles? I’m sure having a hard time coming up with anybody more worthy. Hell, even big arena rock stars like U2 and Bruce Springsteen admit they were inspired by them. I can understand if you don’t like them, but to paraphrase a line from one of the Beatles threads,if you wanna deny their originality the enormous contribution to rock’n’roll, you don’t know shit about popular music. So as far as influence, who else could vie for the crown?
I would’nt say that they were the most influencial. Just because Joey is dead doesn’t mean people should start making a bigger deal of him now. If he was so great, where was the praise when he was alive. Now, don’t get me wrong, I love The Ramones as much as the next guy (Heck, I’m listening to them right now). I just don’t feel that people should take this oppourtunity to overrate Joey. I mourn Joey and I dread that tomorrow I’m gonna have to tell someone, who knew him personally, about his death (He doesn’t get out much and never watches the news, if you wondered why I would be the first to tell him). Joey is Joey, dead or alive. No need to make more of him because he has died.
And woodstock don’t feel that I am attacking you, because I did not intend to.
No, merc, I don’t feel you’re attacking me. In fact, I agree with you. I’m not trying to deify the guy; it’s just that his death started me thinking about their influence. And they were definitely appreciated in their time; all the interviews I’ve read with the original wave of English punk bands (Pistols, Clash, Buzzcocks, etc.) cite them, as well as people as diverse as U2 and Springsteen (already mentioned), Moby, Blondie, Husker Du, Fine Young Cannibals,the Go-Go’s, Wilco, etc. Hell, they basically started modern punk rock, which is still reverberating today in its original form and many permutations. I don’t think a lot of people realize how many doors were opened by punk rock: all the underground and new wave stuff that came around in the 80s owed a debt, however indirect, to the original punk bands, of whom the Ramones are almost universally considered the progenitors. They created their own wall of sound which was the blueprint for many of the rock bands that followed. And I honestly can’t think of anyone else from that era or since that can claim as much. If not them, any other nominees?
(Oh, and in the OP it should read “their originality and their enormous contribution…”, not “their originality the enormous…”). Sorry. It’s late.
I agree. But we also had Dead Kennedys and Bad Religion (a former member from Bad Religion is who I have to inform about Joey’s death tomorrow) that are still alive and kicking and I do believe that they also very strongly contributed to the punk rock scence (though, DK is at each other’s necks because their lead singer won’t let the band use the songs in commercials. Read more about ithere). It seems to me that there is no great contributer, but that it all came from an angered youth that was tired of being apathetic. It seems that that kind of mentality seems to be brewing again these days in the midsts of such protesting of things like the WTO and Cincinnati.
Let me also add that the Ramones are by no means my favorite band - I wouldn’t even pick one of their albums for my personal top 10 list. I’ve always enjoyed them, but I only listen to them every once in a while - they’re not even near the top of the most played CDs in my collection. Still, there have been very few truly influential artists in rock - Elvis (arguably; popular doesn’t equal influential, as witness Madonna), Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, James Brown, The Beatles, Bob Dylan, the Velvet Underground, the Ramones, a very few others. I don’t necessarily like all these people’s music, but I can’t deny their influence. All I’m sayin’.
woodstockbirdybird, I’m with you on this one. It’s hard to argue with the Ramones as the most influential group of the past 30 years. (And Mercutio, with all due respect to the Dead Kennedys, they have nowhere near the breadth of influence of the Ramones. Yeah, maybe the Kennedys were influential within Punk circles, but the influence of the Ramones was far beyond that.)
The Ramones gave rock and roll a good swift kick in the ass at a time when that was desperately needed.
I keep hoping a band will pop up today to do the same.
If you’re strictly speaking of good ol’ rock and roll, I think they’re up there. I mean, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, the Pixies, the Kinks, the Jam and Cheap Trick also come to mind as far as far as influential groups in the last 30 years. Oh yeah, and Pink Floyd also fit the time frame. Perhaps you can even make an argument for Nirvana, who, I think, really gave music a kick in the ass to get us out of the 80’s into the 90s.
As far as other genres, in terms of rap, we have, De La Soul, Arrested Development, Public Enemy and N.W.A. who were extremely influential in their genre. Hell, De La Soul’s Three Feet High and Rising was one of the most influential albums of the last 20 years in any genre, IMHO. And I’m not a huge rap fan. The Beastie Boys, I’m sure have been a big influence to a lot of this rap/rock stuff that’s been going on, and definitely helped in getting rap into the mainstream in the 80s, with License to Ill.
Or how about Kraftwerk’s contribution to electronica in the 80s and 90s?
I’m not about to hand an award to anyone. But I don’t think the Ramones can take the title, as much as I like them and their music.
I don’t think that there is any arguement in favor of the Ramones being the most influential group of the past 30 years.
They could very well be the most influential punk band, since they pretty much invented the genre (although I tend to give less credit to people who invent things by accident–the Ramones “sound” is directly attributed by the fact that when they started, they only knew 4 cords, and had to play fast enough so people couldn’t tell that they couldn’t hit the progressions cleanly). But all genres of music?
Heck, it seems like at least 50% of record sales each week consists of music that’s more closely related to the Partridge Family than anything else (BSB, NSYNC, Briteny, Christina).
If you limited it to “good music” (which is defined as music that you, personally listen to and enjoy), your case gets stronger.
LordVor
Punk rock was never anywhere near as popular or as important as its supporters hoped it would be. For proof, ask one of the surviving Ramones about their disastrous twin-bill with Black Sabbath.
This was in the late 70s, as I recall. Somebody had the brilliant (yes, I’m being saracstic) idea to have a Punk vs. Heavy metal concert at Madison Square Garden. So, the Ramones opened for Sabbath. Now, bear in mind that the Ramones were in their own hometown, New York City, and that they were at the height of their popularity. Black Sabbath, on the other hand, had peaked years earlier, and were definitely on the way down.
So, you’d THINK there’d be more fans for the Ramones. And you’d think wrong! Even at the height of their popularity, the Ramones couldn’t draw a tenth of the crowds that flocked to see heavy metal’s dinosaurs. The Ramones were booed mercilessly.
Now, though I was pretty much a metalhead in the 1970s, I liked some of the Ramones’ stuff. (Heck, what were the Ramones except a Black Sabbath LP played on 78, instead of 33?) I just never took them (or punk) seriously. Fact is, punk NEVER came close to having the commercial success of heavy metal. I’d have to say that MANY groups had a far greater influence on pop music over the past 30 years than the Ramones. Led Zeppelin, for one. The Sugar Hill Gang, for another.
Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath among a few who have influenced a lot of music into the 80s.
Punk was sort of “underground” in my day except for the few popular punk groups that made it to the top of the charts. Shoot, I barely even know any the the Ramones put out. I couldn’t even name a Ramones tune. I’ve heard more from the Butthole Surfers and the Dead Kennedys than the Ramones. Not saying that the Ramones didn’t influence punk just saying that not one group can really stand out, in my mind, as particularly influential to the entire music industry.
I don’t think there is any specific group that really influences the music arena. There are groups that come out with a new sound that create a new way of thinking about music. This includes the Beatles…there is no way they changed the way music is created. A particular sound may influence a new group or musician but music is more than just one band IMO.
BTW, IMO a lot of the music put out today is a mish mash between punk, heavy metal and rap…not particularly pleasing to my senses but more than just an outcropping of one particular area of music.
You say that as if it was a bad thing. Punk did not peak until the middle 80’s. This event you speak of is about a somewhat punk band in the late 70’s. Big difference. Also, the metal crowd seems to drive away a lot of punks and that could be devistating in the late 70’s when punk was bearly around.
Yes, punk was not a commercial success. I doubt that any of the guys involved would have wanted it to be. The “punk” movement was very anti-commercialism, take a look at any Dead Kennedys song for proof. A good friend of mine was in Bad Religion in the hay day of punk and he and everyone else around that period of time most definetly did not want punk to be a mainstream and commercialized deal. To quote Jello Biafra “We didn’t put airbrushed pictures of our ugly faces on our album covers.”
Just because something wasn’t a big commercial success does not mean it should not be taken seriously. It was an era of angry youth tired of being apathetic and looking for a way to be heard. Why do you think they called it “punk”? In the beggining punks were nothing more than the skinny pale guys in the corner that were tired of being pushed around by the jocks.
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The Ramones were the most influential band of the past thirty years. No one said they were the most popular.
As Woodtockbirdybird pointed out, you can draw a line from Punk (as created by the Ramones) to New Wave, to Alternative, to Grunge. ALL of those musical movements have their roots in the Punk revolution engendered by the Ramones. Were it not for the Ramones, we would have remained slaves to record executives with really bad taste. The Ramones taught us that good music came from the bottom up, and not from the top down.
Why do we hate the boy bands and the pop girls? Because we recognize it as music of dubious quality, imposed from the top down. We could use another Joey Ramone right now. That sort of Punk “Hey-let’s-do-it-ourselves” ethos is what shakes things up every ten years or so.
Led Zeppelin? Pink Floyd? They were the authors of the goofy ,self-important pretentiousness from which Punk saved us. (See, This Is Spinal Tap.) Was Zeppelin influential? Obviously. Led Zepplin led to Guns ‘n’ Roses and Whitesnake. The Ramones led to Nirvana and Pearl Jam. I guess it is a matter of taste as to whose influence you value more.
Even if you take punk more seriously than I do (and I think it was the most overrated “movement” in music history), there are bands who deserve more credit than the Ramones. Like… well, the Ohio Express, the 1910 Fruitgum Company and Tommy James & the Shondells.
Hey, you think it’s a coincidence that the Ramones covered the 1910 Fruitgum Company’s “Indian Giver”? That the Cars ripped off the opening of “Yummy Yummy Yummy I’ve Got Love in my Tummy” at the start of “Just What I Needed”? That Billy Idol and Joan Jett covered Tommy James tunes? That the Talking Heads used to play “1-2-3 Red Light” in concert?
1960s bubble gum was a strong influence on the punks, and even more so on 80s new wavers.
Well, to determine who was the most influential band of
the past 30 years, the sum of what we think is a pretty
bad metric.
The sum of what recording artists think is a better one,
and in fact, could be argued to define influence.
As you’ve already stated, many, many rock artists cite the
Ramones.
Others that may vie for the title would be the Velvet
Underground (20,000 people bought their first album, and
nearly every one of them started a band), and Iggy Pop.