Random Searches on the Boston Subway

[Baldwin]

I’ve been waiting a couple of days for a thread about this to pop up. To my surprise, I haven’t seen one, and after failing to find mention of this subject with a search, thought I might as well start a thread. If I’ve somehow missed another thread on the same topic, I’m sorry for wasting your time.

I’m starting this in the Pit, in case people want to swear. If everybody insists on being very polite, we can always move it to GD.

So, here’s the USA Today story: Boston to search train commuters. If you ride the subway or commuter trains in Boston, a police officer may search your bag without probable cause. The people who instituted this policy are probably well-meaning, but the effect one more infringement on liberty because of fear.

But the American Civil Liberties Union says the searches may be unconstitutional. The group is reminding passengers that they have the right to refuse ID checks. Carol Rose, director of the state ACLU, said the searches could target people based on appearance. She called it “pretend security.”

What will actually happen if people just say no? The authorities would have to either start violating that right, or abandon the policy as useless. I hope the latter is what actually happens. My fear is that this policy is greeted with apathy by a public that’s become accustomed to not voicing dissent.

[Bricker]

Do you believe airlines’ searches of passenger bags are legal?

If you do, what distinguishes this program from that?

If you do not… where was your outrage years ago, when airlines began searching bags?

[Weirddave]

How about: Airlines are private companies and the Boston Metro is public, paid for by taxpayer funds?

Or
Airplanes have a real, tangable, historicaly documented risk of people attempting to hijack them, and have had for years. Can you give any instances of people attempting to hijack a subway to Cuba?

[Ryle_Dup]

@Bricker

Do you believe airlines’ searches of passenger bags are legal?

If you do, what distinguishes this program from that?

If you do not… where was your outrage years ago, when airlines began searching bags?

Airlines search everyones bags, this is a random check of anyone looking ‘suspicious’ (middle eastern).

@Weirddave

Airplanes have a real, tangable, historicaly documented risk of people attempting to hijack them, and have had for years. Can you give any instances of people attempting to hijack a subway to Cuba?

No, but how about train bombings? Like say, in Madrid.

[Bricker]

@Weirddave

How about: Airlines are private companies and the Boston Metro is public, paid for by taxpayer funds?

While the airlines are public, the workforce involved in screening the bags are all federal employees, paid by taxpayer funds.

Airplanes have a real, tangable, historicaly documented risk of people attempting to hijack them, and have had for years. Can you give any instances of people attempting to hijack a subway to Cuba?

No, but of what legal relevance is that distinction?

@RyleDup

Airlines search everyones bags, this is a random check of anyone looking ‘suspicious’ (middle eastern).

That’s not so. Airline security picked random passenger luggage for complete searches, and did only cursory searches on others.

• Rick

[tdn]

@Weirddave

Airplanes have a real, tangable, historicaly documented risk of people attempting to hijack them, and have had for years. Can you give any instances of people attempting to hijack a subway to Cuba?

Ever read The Taking of Pelham 123?

But agreed, I can’t think of any precedence for this. During the convention, maybe, but as a matter of day to day life? Stupid.

Oh, and Boston doesn’t have a Metro – we have the T.

[Skywatcher]

I’d be willing to bet that the random searches will go away when the Democrats’ convention does.

BTW: the transit authority for DC is currently testing bomb detecting equipment, I think it’s in conjunction with bomb-sniffing dogs.

[Binarydrone]

You know, just to be safe, perhaps we should start randomly searching people’s houses and cars. Perhaps then we will be safe from the terrorist menace. :rolleyes:

Some of you sheep-like fuckers make me want to puke. Looks to me as if the terrorists have already won, as they have instilled in the populace the willingness to hand over our freedom with nary a murmur.

[Superdude]

@Binarydrone

You know, just to be safe, perhaps we should start randomly searching people’s houses and cars. Perhaps then we will be safe from the terrorist menace. :rolleyes:

Which is why I always hide my bombs and drugs in my dog’s ass. That way, if another dog smells it, it’s expected.

I’m being facetious, of course. I’m outraged, and I don’t even live around that area.

Maybe this is my small-town, Midwest upbringing, but I see an inherent difference between planes and trains. Other than the bombing aspect, a la Madrid, there’s not really a whole lot that one can do to a train. Ya can’t really hijack a train to a different destination. I mean, I couldn’t just decide to demand that a train from DC to NYC has to take me to the Middle East.

I wonder about the “retaliations” of the law-enforcement officials who were refused. Seems like this COULD be a legitimate Constitutional issue, about illegal search/seizure. If someone refused to be searched, what would happen?

[Cervaise]

@Binarydrone

You know, just to be safe, perhaps we should start randomly searching people’s houses and cars. Perhaps then we will be safe from the terrorist menace.

Don’t give them any ideas.

[OtakuLoki]

@Binarydrone

You know, just to be safe, perhaps we should start randomly searching people’s houses and cars. Perhaps then we will be safe from the terrorist menace. :rolleyes:

Some of you sheep-like fuckers make me want to puke. Looks to me as if the terrorists have already won, as they have instilled in the populace the willingness to hand over our freedom with nary a murmur.

Were you speaking out against the whole concept of a Homeland Security department? I honestly don’t know. This seems to be more of the same: for the past three years, the impression I’ve had is that all governments in the US have been offering to trade away freedoms for liberty, because none of the politicians, or anyone else with the ability to make a public fuss, are willing to point out that the possibility of a 9/11 or Oklahoma City bombing will always be there unless we give the Federal government the authority to institute ‘papers’. And I thought we’d won the cold war.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

But… if we subscribe to wild-eyed radical ideas like these, how can we assure America’s security?

Why, before you know it, those terrorist scum in our custody will be expecting this kind of mollycoddling:

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

We’ve got to stamp out all such unpatriotic liberal nonsense, or the terrorists will win!

[Unregistered_Bull]

All this civil liberty violation stuff is stuff that I actually feared happening in a Democratic regime (ie., Bill Clinton / Al Gore). To my chagrin it is the Republicans.

But does anyone think that a Democratic regime with Kerry and Edwards won’t keep on violating civil liberties in the way the Bush Administration does? Or that many Americans (perhaps a majority), of both parties don’t believe that stuff such as random bag searches are violations of civil liberty or that such violations are needed?

[OtakuLoki]

@Machetero

But does anyone think that a Democratic regime with Kerry and Edwards won’t keep on violating civil liberties in the way the Bush Administration does? Or that many Americans (perhaps a majority), of both parties don’t believe that stuff such as random bag searches are violations of civil liberty or that such violations are needed?

Well, honestly, considering that the Patriot Act passed, I think that it’s up to the Kerry/Edwards people to convince me that their candidates will restore civil liberties. This is not to say that I am ignoring the role the Repulican party has had, but when one of the stars of the Democrats (Sen. Hillary Clinton.) is constantly harping about the need for a division of Northern Border Security… I question just how dedicated the Democrats as a whole are to the concept of civil rights compared to Bushco.

At the moment I’m planning to vote KBO down the line… and for as many third party candidates as possible.

[booka]

@Binarydrone

You know, just to be safe, perhaps we should start randomly searching people’s houses and cars. Perhaps then we will be safe from the terrorist menace. :rolleyes:

Some of you sheep-like fuckers make me want to puke. Looks to me as if the terrorists have already won, as they have instilled in the populace the willingness to hand over our freedom with nary a murmur.

Agreed.

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

-Benjamin Franklin

[Lilairen]

@Baldwin

My fear is that this policy is greeted with apathy by a public that’s become accustomed to not voicing dissent.

The Boston Globe ran a poll on the subject. When I looked at the votes, it was running about 1:2:3 on, “Great idea, especially in these troubled times”:“Fuck, no, I’m not gonna submit to a bag check”:“I don’t have a goddamn choice, do I? I have to get to work and I can’t afford to get fired.”

[Typo_Negative]

@Bricker

That’s not so. Airline security picked random passenger luggage for complete searches, and did only cursory searches on others.

• Rick

But that is just for checked luggage. Every piece of carry-on luggage goes through some type of search. Hell, they’re x-raying our shoes and jackets at LAX.

[SkipMagic]

@Bricker

While the airlines are public, the workforce involved in screening the bags are all federal employees, paid by taxpayer funds.

That’s not necessarily true. There are five airports who utilize private screeners.

Privately hired security screeners at Kansas City International Airport generally outperformed government screeners at other airports, according to a report released Thursday.

The report, prepared by consultants for the federal Transportation Security Administration, compared private screening operations at five airports, including KCI, with the government screeners who staff all other commercial airports.

The report was released the same day Congress heard testimony that airport security screening overall was poor.

Private screeners at KCI have been more effective than the federal screeners at similar-sized airports, the report said. It was the only one of the five airports to top federally screened airports in security effectiveness.

from here. (Mini-registration required.)

Kansas City International as well as airports in Jackson Hole, WY; Rochester, NY; San Francisco, CA; and Tupelo, MS all use private screeners. Cite.

So, private screeners paid by taxpayer funds, but private nonetheless.

[Mr.Moto]

I agree that the situation is not ideal. But this is essentially a wartime measure. Security precautions get ramped up in times of war.

It was so during World War II as well.

I live and work in the DC area, so I see this every day. There’s an antiaircraft missile battery parked on the roof of the parking garage where I park every day, at the Washington Navy Yard. It was moved there after 9/11 because it’s within view of National Airport.

I can certainly understand the concern, but in wake of the Madrid bombings, does anybody have any better ideas to improve train security there?

[Alessan]

“Random” checks? Why? Why don’t they just check everybody’s bag at the entrance to the station?