I have no doubt that rap is music. It’s just music that I don’t care to listen to.
I don’t really care what it’s called; I don’t like it. This is not because of what it’s saying, this is not because of the “bad” words it uses, I can’t understand the words. It’s because it’s so boring and monotonus: just beat-beat-beat with no variation. Boring. Annoying.
It’s meant to be annoying, isn’t it? The whole point is to annoy the enemy, the enemy being people who are too old or too straight or too whatever.
To echo a popular sentiment, I will grudgingly agree that it is music. This doesn’t make it acceptable by any stretch of the imagination, IMO.
Sorry, folks, this seems to have just downloaded from a random transmission of the 1959 broadcast of “What’s Wrong With Rock And Roll”.
Please ignore it and go back to your discussion of what’s wrong with rap.
If it helps, I don’t like rock ‘n’ roll from that era either. I like Buddy Holly, but I consider him quite the exception.
Hell, it’s all on the “outside” as far as I am concerned. I’ve been a hardcore (well, pretty hardcore) Classical fan since birth. (Born in to a hardcore Classical family, it came naturally.) I do like some popular music now, and will concede that a lot of it shows a lot of talent and ability. Still doesn’t mean I want to listen to it. Same goes for rap. Don’t care, don’t care, don’t care. It’s never going to be something I’ll listen to. And it’s not because I’m “too old” or “too square”. I’ve been like this since I was 8.
Frankly, (between you and me) I think that many people who think that folks like me “can’t handle” their music are more apt to have a fit at the idea of listening to my music (i.e. some heavy Sibelius’s 4th Symphony, for instance). So who really “can’t handle” what?
I don’t know. I don’t care all that much. Just don’t bother me with it. I’m over here with a new Marion Anderson CD I need to listen to. 
Oops. Marian Anderson.
Sorry, Hazel, but to say that rap is “boring, anoying beat-beat-beat” without variation, frankly, betrays your lack of familiarilty with the subject. Pick up a record by Blackalicious, the Neptunes, De La Soul, The Pharcyde, Wyclef Jean, Jurassic 5, the Streets, just to name a few… and then tell me that beats are static and uninteresting.
If you judge all rap by the crap you hear on radio, well, it’s no better than me judging rock by artists such as Creed, Sum 41, Alient Ant Farm, Limp Bizkit… I can level the exact same accusations of repetitiveness, predictability and sheer sonic boredom at these artists as well. If you’re interested and want to dig, there are plenty of great rap artists out there who keep beats fresh and interesting. See my above suggestions for starters.
I’m a new-waver/punker myself, but hip-hop and rap represent for me THE most exciting development in music in the last 25 years. Our musical culture would be so much poorer were it not for the creation of this genre. And it really does unnerve me a bit to see why there’s so much vitriol leveled against it as an art form. To even suggest that it’s not music seems ludicrous beyond belief.
And it seems rather silly to suggest that music is only that which is produced by playing musical instruments. Huh? Whistling is not music? Singing is not music? A bizarre definition by my standards.
Snipped from yme:
Yes. I want to hear drum pedals squeaking, picks scraping strings, amps feeding back and know that those sounds were made by a musician, not some effete knob-twiddler. Just my opinion, though.
Rap is music, certainly, for lack of a better term. I welcomed rap as a means for black people to really say what’s on their mind. A major opportunity for communication to a whole generation of listeners. That opportunity is largely left unrealized, at least in the positive fashion I imagined. Not that it’s not out there, it’s just that the scene is predominated by the gangster element.
It has debatably set women back about 40 years and influenced a generation of young lemmings to walk over the wrongly glorified cliff.
I would also classify that as ‘crap’, as I would almost all rap.
Although you are right, I would recommend shifting his focus to other things that he can complain “isn’t even music.” Hunt down Kid 606’s glitch remix of NWA’s Straight Outta Compton. If he hates rap, then this is going to cause small explosions inside his head and make steam come pouring out of his ears. I like glitch remixes, but if he hates rap and electronica, then there is no way that he’ll consider this music. I’d also recommend Dsico’s remix of Jenny From The Block titled Keep It Real, Bitch.
He’ll have something new to bitch about, you get to annoy your dad. Win-win situation as far as I’m concerned.
And if you want to take the boring way out:
Tell him about the talking blues. And Bob Dylan’s Subterranean Homesick Blues
Michael Stipe of R.E.M. doesn’t play or know how to play any instruments.
I can’t see how improvised jazz could possibly have pre-written sheet music, for then it would not be improvised. But as other’s have mentioned, hip hop can be transcribed as sheet music. It’s just rarely done, because there’s no market for it, since around a hundred or more years ago (make snide remarks about his age if you feel like it) some guy invented the phonograph so that we don’t need to play other people’s songs, but can listen to recordings.
Ask your dad if Gregorian chants are music. If he says yes, then he is just in denial about rap.
Sure it’s music. It’s also nauseating drivel for the most part.
Couldn’t say it any better than Rider.
Rap is not what most people regard as music because it is not melodic. It is virtually the only genre ever that this can be said of. Most people are of the opinion that in order for something to be music it must have a melody. If you consider this to be the determining factor then rap does not meet the standard and is not music.
Many people define music as any kind of organized sound. In that case rap would meet the standard. But then so would GWB’s State of the Union speach.
This thread is hilarious. When did SDMB members start channeling the spirits of 1958 Republicans?
To you folks claiming rap is “sort of” like music or is “Drivel,” you do realize you’ve turned into your grandparents, right? And that people are going to laugh at you in twenty years? Guess what, folks: You’re old! Welcome to Fogeyville; you’re officially over the hill. Might wanna pull your pants up around your nipples and join the AARP!
Rap is now about the tenth kind of innovative, cutting edge African-American music in the last century century to be dismissed as “drivel” and “not really music” by people who define “music” as being “what I listened to when I was a kid.”
1958: “This rock and roll isn’t music. Its just the same beats over and over. And it’s dirty.”
1968: “This Jimi Hendrix guy doesn’t make music. It’s just making noises with his guitar. It sounds like cats dying. And it’s dirty!”
1978: “This disco stuff isn’t music, it’s just beat-beat-beat and the same lyrics. And it’s dirty. They should make music like they did in the fifties!”
1988: “This Michael Jackson guy sucks, he just keeps grabbing his crotch. That isn’t music. And it’s dirty. They should make real music like they did when I was a kid… in the 70’s!”
Rap IS music, beyond any doubt or question. And a lot of it is very exciting, innovative stuff, and it’s making its way into the musical lexicon by mixing and drifting around the musical spectrum. As pulykamell points out, if you just heard the latest Snoop Dogg crap and hated it, that’s your call, but I wouldn’t dismiss all of rock music just because I listened to a Bon Jovi song. There’s really great stuff going on in rap and hip-hop.
So spoken word poetry is music now, right?
Or wait, I’ve got a CD of Mitch Hedberg doing comedy, and he’s got a bass playing behind him. So he’s recorded a music album?
Rap is not music. The music BEHIND the rapper could be considered music. But rap itself is talking fast and to the beat. Not on any particular pitch or with any particular melody. Rap is not music.
Unless you want to classify audiobooks as music too. Then we can talk.
And rsa, Gregorian chants, at least the ones I’m familiar with, are to be sung on an actual pitch, and have actual melody, and sometimes even harmony. Rap does not.
It’s also important to realize the distinction between “rap” and “hip hop.” I’m not big on a lot of rap, but I absolutley love hip hop, which includes rap, instruments, beats, and all other variety of sounds.
Yay, I get to go see Common tonight. I’m so excited.
When farting, I can manipulate my arse cheeks to create different tones. They can range from “The Hungry Kitten” at the high end to “The Departing Cruise Ship” at the low end.
It is, without a doubt, music.
Fans of rap should feel a little better, knowing that their beloved computer-generated sounds are indeed “music”, just like the noxious fumes that radiate from my bung.
Of course rap isn’t music.
And crime novels aren’t books, either.
(On a sidenote, anyone who calls rap “computer-generated sounds” has lost all credibility on the subject of hip-hop. rap = emceeing, the singing of rap music. Either way, the beats are traditionally done on a turntable, not a computer.)
Then I have been a fogey since I left highschool. I was exposed to RAP about as early as anyone. I attended highschool closer to Detroit than M&M ever lived and was exposed to it then and in college.
I tend to think a lot of music is drivel. I think a lot of rock is drivel. I think Micheal Jackson was the Britney Spears of his generation, so yea I guess I would classify him as drivel. I KNOW disco was drivel. Heck disco was SUPPOSED to be drivel you could dance to. I think a lot of Jazz, especially third or fourth generation jazz is drivel. It tends to be created by people whose sole claim to significance is going “further” than anyone else has before down some blind ally of the form.
I have however found some example of the form that had some redeaming value in all of these types of popular sound. But aside from Vincent Price on the Thriller track and a few very amusing parodies I have never heard a RAP song that was anything more than cursing to a beat. I will grant you that this sound may “speak” to some people. All it ever said to me was, “change the station.”