Ok, yes, I agree with that one. BUT, it was merely *attempted *rape, and Spike was just as scared/sickened by it as the rest of us. And, as you say, since their sexual relationship was one of *violent *sex and her saying no and then grabbing his dick and kissing him, I can understand that he, in his desperate yearning, missed the fact that this time, no meant no. They had, in effect, been playacting rape sex all along - sometimes she’d “rape” him and sometimes he’d “rape” her, but all of the sudden it was the real thing, and he and we simultaneously were sickened by the look of real fear in her eyes.
If he hadn’t stopped, if he hadn’t been sickened at what he’d almost done, then I wouldn’t have remained sympathetic with him.
Brilliantly done, IMHO. But yeah, I’ve not watched that episode again, either.
I’m bored, and a little tired. I also like silly debates that matter not in the least. And anything is better than thinking more about Lucy’s Heaven thread.
Maybe you find it difficult, but I dated a girl who had recurring nightmares about being raped by Robert DeNiro, and I think she holds a grudge not just against the character but against the actor himself for it.
This is the one everyone remembers, but there was a similar “rape” in *Atlas Shrugged, *in the tunnels beneath the railroad station . . . Galt on Dagny.
There are many sequences of events, plot scenarios, and autobiographical experiences that cause my sympathies to lie with the male person in a sexually charged antagonistic face-off.
I can’t think of any whereby his raping of her would be the satisfactory conclusion. It would not constitute the proper form of giving her a taste of a) her own medicine or b) what she needs. It would not constitute him coming out the victor. It would dissipate my sympathy for his plight.
That’s the one I was going to mention - I don’t think the disillusionment with her is what allowed him to remain sympathetic, but his realization after she fights him off, that he’d attempted a bad thing.
She wanted the first “rape” (really mostly consensual) by that huge blond guy, but she did NOT want to be raped by his weasely friend after the first guy was done.
Dhampir ( not sure of the spelling ) by someone I don’t recall, and The Night Church by Whitley Streiber both involve rapes where the man involved is under magical compulsion.
Horus in Creatures of Light and Darkness by Roger Zelazny has sex with a woman who is compelled to cooperate, which makes it rape, but he doesn’t realize it, and inadvertently releases her anyway.
“Rape” in that case is a bit hard to define. The females in those cases were “minionettes”, the descendants of a failed attempt at creating a sex slave; they were given an empathic sense that was supposed to allow them to anticipate their master’s desires perfectly; it is defective, however, and operates in reverse. A minionette finds positive emotions in other people highly unpleasant, and will either avoid them or try to create negative emotions to replace them; picking arguments, for example. Literally, a man who loves a minionette has to work up hatred or anger towards her as well, or he’ll make her suffer. So basically, all sex with a minionette has to be a sort of pseudo-rape, or she’ll hate it. This all naturally leads to seriously screwed up relationships.
It’s been about 13 years since I last read this book, but doesn’t the title character in The Death of Artemio Cruz rape the woman who later becomes his wife? I’m not sure how sympathetic Cruz is, though. I remember liking the book, but my memories of it are pretty fuzzy now.
John Irving also wrote The Fourth Hand where Doris performs a similar act on Patrick Wallingford in a successful attempt to get pregnant. In return, she authorizes her recently departed husband Otto’s left hand to be attached to Wallingford’s arm where he had lost the hand to a tiger.
It’s hard to say whether the guy at the end of The Last Seduction thinks he’s actually raping Linda Fiorentino’s character, or merely having incredibly fucked up consensual sex with all of the outward trappings of rape and most of the emotional context as well.
In either case, he’s being set up, and you have to feel sorry for the poor slob.
Well, let’s tackle one of the most gut-wrenching films ever made, Cannibal Holocaust. The structure of the film was an inspiration to the makers of The Blair Witch Project: documentary filmmakers go into the wild and vanish; later, their film is discovered, and that discovered film makes up the real story.
I suppose I should spoilerbox this: [spoiler]In CH, the filmmakers are searching for a little-known tribe of alleged cannibals in the Amazon rainforest. They find the tribe, and turn into colossal assholes, terrorizing the natives at every opportunity. They kill tribal animals wantonly and needlessly. They set fire to a house full of women who are frightened of the newcomers, then have sex in the ashes while the tribe watches. And they rape a young native girl, whom the tribe then ritualistically kills.
Finally, having had enough, the tribe hunts down the filmmakers and kills them. They rape the woman of the group before killing her, and you know, it’s damn hard to blame them. I don’t recall if they do anything similar to the men, although I do remember one being castrated before being killed.[/spoiler]
Anyway, the movie so revels in wanton violence that it’s hard to watch, and afterwards you’ll feel like you need a shower. Incidentally, it also contains scenes of actual animal killings, including the graphic butchering of a turtle, which many would find upsetting.
Was that rape? I tend to think it was more of Scarlett finally, willingly, giving herself up to someone she couldn’t bully. Sort of angry, makeup sex. Certainly, the next morning, she was quite the blushing bride, (meaning, I think, that for the first time in her three marriages she probably had an orgasm or three.)
In A History of Violence Tom Stall rapes his wife and while I don’t exactly sympathize with him, I understand where his feelings came from. If that makes any sense at all. Plus, if she can forgive him, so can I.
I agree with you, and that’s why I’m able to view it with a grin and not hate myself.
But, like it or not, whether she liked it or not, at the last moment we see them before (presumable) coitus, she’s literally kicking and punching him as he carries her away. She had already told him she didn’t want to have sex with him, and she was drunk as a skunk. Under current law, what he did was absolutely 100% rape (although I don’t believe that law at the time would have considered it possible to rape your wife.)
And, realistically, for every guy who suspects that no means yes and she secretly wants it rough and he’s right, there have to be a dozen who think the same thing and are wrong. So, grin like a cat the next morning aside, I think Scarlett *was *raped. Rhett didn’t - couldn’t have - know at the time of his actions that she’d be smiling in the morning. And in fact, the first thing he does is come in and apologize, and Scarlett acts the part of violated woman.
But, as I’ve said a brazillion times on this board, rape isn’t always the ruination of your life. That doesn’t mean it should be encouraged, but that people who are raped may not always be rending their garments and pouring ashes in their hair afterwards.
Are you talking about the movie or the book? Because in the book, Rhett’s drunk, not Scarlett (unlike the movie, he did accompany Scarlett to Ashley’s birthday party, then sent her home alone) and partway up the stairs, he kisses her and she kisses him back, “hungrily.” Also, in the book, he disappears for three days afterward, and he sort of blows her off when he sees her again, obstensibly to make it seem such nights of passion are not uncommon for him (Belle) but secretly, to protect himself should she because Hard as Nails Scarlett again. Which she did.
So, I don’t see it as much as a rape, but as more of a seduction. You also have to remember, she was emotionally cheating on Rhett with Ashley, and was trying to be “true” to Ashley by keeping Rhett out of her bed. After she told Rhett she didn’t want any more children (and what that meant, obviously) she realized there was no way she could tell Ashley that she had kicked Rhett out of her bedroom, and she cried and wished she hadn’t said anything, because she did like snuggling and talking with Rhett in bed. Ashley wasn’t sleeping with Melanie because another pregnancy would have killed her.
The book is a bit more nuanced…for crying out loud, in the movie, they cut out two of Scarlett’s children and completely left out Archie the murderer and Will, Suellen’s husband.
One of these days, when I rule the world, I’m going to remake the movie version of Gone With the Wind. It might be a nine-hour movie, with a break in the middle for bathrooms and snacks, but dammit…it will hold true to the book. As much as I like the movie, Scarlett is portrayed more as a spoiled bitch than a survivor, and Rhett has an enormous amount of patience and understanding for her…my God, he loved her from the beginning, but knew enough about her that he could never let her know.