No, for obvious reasons.
Why, it’s almost like you only wanted to say it doesn’t exist, and didn’t actually want to find out anything about it!
I’m citing my own authority. You said there’s no definition. I gave you one. I take it that you’re conceding that rape culture as I’ve defined it exists, but that, since there’s been no showing that my definition is authoritative, you will not concede that “rape culture” as is somehow otherwise commonly understood (even though you don’t know a definition for it) exists?
Um, no…it’s actually nothing like that whatsoever, and I’m baffled as to how you managed to get that from what I wrote.
And your authority would be…what, exactly? Are you a sociologist? A social psychologist? An anthropologist? Have you conducted any research on the matter? Published any papers? Anything?
You did give me a definition, true. But since you didn’t reference any authoritative sources for it, I’ve no idea if it’s a good definition, or even a popular one. As far as I can tell, you’re speaking only for yourself. In which case, I can only say (at the risk of disrespecting your authoritah!) “Who cares?”
All I can “concede” right now is that you believe what you say, but that doesn’t really help me very much, does it?
I’m not asking for much. Just some sort of evidence to show that your definition of rape culture is predominant, or at least vaguely popular. If you can provide that evidence, I’ll happily debate your definition. Otherwise, we’ll have to go with my definition of rape culture which is “Anything Jimmy Chitwood says or does from now until the end of time” which, as far as I can tell, is every bit as authoritative as yours currently is.
Here is a 400 page book for you since you are interested:
Its ten years old, so some of it is a little dated by now, but at the time it was published, it was pretty much the definitive book on the idea of “rape culture” and what to do about it.
(Actually, this EDITION is ten years old, the book itself was first published in 1993…this isn’t a new term or a new idea.)
It was through my brain via the eyes.
As it happens, I’m an expert in the field of sexual and domestic violence law, and yes, and yes. Ever ask a question you shouldn’t have? Not that this would need to be the case, mind you; if I tell someone there’s no definition for a fucking apple, where o where can I find a definition of what this magical thing called an apple might be, and they do me a solid and tell me what a fucking apple is, I don’t need to examine their bona fides, because regardless, my quibble has been addressed.
In other words, what’s your quibble now? Turns out you don’t want to talk about how to define rape culture. What do you want to talk about, other than yourself talking?
Well you could have fucking said so! That would have been enough. That was literally ALL you needed to do. Jesus Christ…
Fine, if you’re an expert in the field of sexual and domestic violence law and not just some fucking schlub on the internet then I’ll happily accept your definition of rape culture as authoritative.
So about that debate, then.
Here’s my first question: If rape culture is “A set of beliefs and practices which, in aggregate, have the effect of establishing a status quo wherein the existence of some amount of sexual violence is expected and normalized, leading to an environment where more sexual assaults occur than would occur in the absence of such a culture.” then how are the people within that culture able to override or ignore the overwhelmingly large and powerful set of beliefs and practises which, in aggregate, have the effect of establishing that rapists are the scum of the Earth? These beliefs and practises include (but are not limited to) harsh prison sentences for rapists and universally negative portrayals of rapists in all forms of popular media.
After all, if the set of beliefs and practises which encompass rape culture were not sufficient to override the set of beliefs and practises which condemn rape, they wouldn’t lead to an environment where more sexual assaults occur than would otherwise.
I do accept Jimmy Chitwood’s definition but to be complete:
“Official” cite Wikipedia
I myself am not certain that rape culture is only studied by feminists, but that is Wikipedia for you.
In my experience, rape culture exists in the United States and Western Europe. I have not lived elsewhere. From what I observe, it is pervasive in most cultures across the globe. I say “most” only because there may be one where it doesn’t exist, but I am not aware of one. I would be happy to learn of it.
I should mention, as I’ve done elsewhere on the board, that I put in thousands of hours as a rape counselor.
As to the “date rape”, I’m not sure why providing personal data points somehow allows us to participate in the thread but it seems to. my sister was sexually assaulted by a football player in college. No, she was not drinking. She was just smaller than he was. No, nothing was done.
Is the OP participating in the thread or just watching?
Totally out of his depth and just watching helplessly is my guess.
No, u.
Sorry. I should have been clearer. The cite is an excerpt from a much larger text and the info in my link actually starts on page 1448 of that text. You actually only need to scroll down 17 pages. Also, it’s page 1465. My bad!
That’s it. You’re done.
Whoosh? Followed by a clarification to the whoosh? :dubious:
I’m someone who doesn’t think “rape culture” is quite the best name for the phenomenon–at least in the context of “we live in a rape culture.” But the underlying concept exists. (I’d rather argue that our culture tolerates certain pro-rape subcultures.)
Just like I’m not a fan of “_____ privilege,” even though I regularly experience the concept it espouses. Hell, it’s the reason why the OP has the ability to say what he says. I just think it’s stupid to call it a privilege, because I connect that word with something that is earned.
:rolleyes:
Oh yes it would. Police tend to view sexual crimes much more seriously then crimes against property and more seriously generally then physical threats or even some actual violence. I have seen police officers say “street fight and the loser is here complaining” and directly tell victims of burglary that they should have been more careful and unless they get lucky, they can forget about ever getting anything back, “its probably already sold”.
Yes, there is a rape culture but their is also an anti-rape culture. Meaning good, decent people actively working to stop it. You find this first in changing attitudes (when did you last see a movie where rape was depicted as good?). Second, in teaching women how to defend themselves from attackers. And third, by pushing for tougher laws against it.
Now a big problem in our area are the rape kits. Because of budget shortfalls many linger to the point of being unusable because it takes $1500 to process such a kit so police only process the ones where they have the best chance of finding the assailant. Some women have gone ahead and paid for the processing themselves.
You also live in another country than the one we are generally discussing. I’m sure monstro appreciates the warning not to visit anytime soon.
Not a whoosh, just some sloppy citing on my part.
The link I provided for the statement “24% of Americans favour the death penalty for rapists” was a 28 page excerpt from what appears to be a much, much longer publication. Page 1 of the excerpt is actually page 1,448 of the longer publication.
The excerpt is also a PDF, so I couldn’t copy/paste from it. Instead, I instructed people to “scroll down to page 1464” so they could see the relevant line for themselves. Kayaker assumed (perfectly reasonably, given what I’d actually written) that I was asking people to scroll through nearly 1,500 pages of text. Instead, since page 1 of the excerpt is page 1,448 of the greater publication, I was only asking people to scroll through 17 pages.
Also, I made a typo. It’s page 1,465 (i.e. the 17th page of the excerpt), not page 1,464.
If the status quo (state of affairs) is that rapes occur, then rapes are to be expected and are normalized to the society.
If there was a period where no rapes occurred, the the normal state of affairs is that no rapes occur.
To suggest that in a society where rapes have always occurred that expectations of rape are not normalized, you have to provide evidence that one could normally expect no rapes.
Which, of course, is not reflective of reality. Rapes have always occurred, as a normalized stain on our society.
Your definition is vague and useless. Bogged down in errant semantics, you can use the term “rape culture” in any way you see fit without acknowledging that, by your definition, every culture is a rape culture.