I have always just assumed that wishing rape on a criminal was a metaphor for helplessness.
Meaning that we are not wishing for the criminal to actually be “raped” we are wishing for the criminal to have the same feeling of helplessness that the victim felt.
The rape scenario is used because to be taken against ones will is the ultimate (I would imagine) loss of control.
I think I understand what lieu, and to some extent Diane is saying. I understand that at first, when we hear about heinous crime our reaction is base and barbaric, it’s instinctual…eye for an eye. You murdered my mom and I hope you suffer greatly…and we’re taught our whole lives that rape is ‘a fate worse than death’, so we naturally lean that way as a way of torture because the death penalty would be too quick, too easy or maybe too harsh.
All I’m asking is: remember that person you know or yourself, who was left irreparable. That woman or man who is constantly reminded somehow of what they went through. It’s more than fifteen minutes of violent sex and a black eye. It’s more than someone calling you a bitch. It’s humiliation and unwashable filth, and a broken heart and very often, it’s knowing that the person who attacked you still walks around scott free.
I wouldn’t even wish rape on the man that raped me…so how could I possibly wish it on anyone else?
You’re a dear, jarbaby.
My wish is that anyone that would ever consider the rape of an innocent must weigh that urge against knowing that a like fate might await him in prison.
That’s what makes me smile… that he would know the fear he unjustly instilled in others.
Ignoring the ethics of prison rape, I have a problem with anyone who metaphorically steps on someone’s foot and then offers justification instead of an apology. I wasn’t in that thread, but I’ll apologize on the behalf of those who can’t, won’t or simply don’t.
Agreed, but I’ll go a step further. Kill the fuckers and spare everyone.
But then, thats another debate/rant and I don’t want to hijack jarbaby’s thread.
I understand and respect what you are saying here, but I still can not find it in myself to feel sorry for guys who rape, torture, and kill little children like Danielle Van Dam or Samantha Runnion.
I’m not wishing rape on anyone, but I have absolutely no compassion for them if they are left humiliated and heartbroken from a prison rape. I’m not talking about innocent victims, but disgusting human beings who may be subjected to a small percentage of the fear and pain they subjected onto their victims. Sorry, but I have no pity for them whatsoever.
I agree with you 100% Jarbaby.
I just want to point out that in my thread I didn’t call for anyone’s rape or physical torture. I did wish him eternal punishiment in hell. That’s completely different, especially considering I’m an atheist.
Diane, and I think once again there’s a difference (although i still disagree with you) between saying “I feel no pity if they suffer” and “I hope he gets cornholed within an inch of his life”.
It’s the hoping and wishing for rape that makes me sick.
Luna: I was speaking to Diogenes who said “I hope he gets raped”
J
I understand the impulse to wish bad things to happen to people that do bad things. I also understand wishing “you did this awful thing, you should feel the same pain”.
Of course, as has been mentioned, it’s mostly the weak and vulnerable in prison that gets raped.
About a month or so ago, I saw, with trepidation, a name in the ‘circuit court action’ part of my newspaper. It was the name of a kid who’d been in my son’s 5th grade class. I remember him clearly, he wasn’t very smart, struggled in school, didn’t have clean clothes to wear, kids made fun of him. His teacher did what she could. I did what I could (I was kinda a ‘den mother’ to that whole class, and kept track of many of them for the next several years). I knew he’d have a struggle, kept trying to give him encouragement.
He was sentenced to 3 to 14 years for bad checks. He’ll probably be referred to me when he gets out. And I know he’s going to get hurt there.
You may only wish prison rape on those who deserve it, but you don’t control that.
and damn near all of them will be returning to your streets someday.
Can I just say how utterly sad it is that life outside of prison is aparently so miserable these days that we’re reduced to finding more ways to try to make prison unpleasant to appease our sense of justice? Why is simply not being free to enjoy life punishment enough? Oh, because life is so often not enjoyable in today’s society. Gotcha.
Enjoy,
Steven
I agree with bernse. Fuck rape, just kill the bastards. Killing them serves a purpose, it gets them off the streets permanently. Rape doesn’t do that. And by bastards I mean rapists, molesters, murderers, not dope dealers, shoplifters or bad check writers.
But that’s a debate for another thread.
Before I begin, I’m going to put on the asbestos suit of someone who speaks only from my own personal experience of having been raped.
Now, on with my thoughts.
I have joked about prison rape. I’ve joked about rape outside of prison. I’ve done it before and after being raped. I can’t recall ever hoping that someone was actually raped, but I can remember hoping that someone would have to feel the same things that the person(s) they attacked did.
Personally, I think I can joke about rape because I don’t think it’s ‘worse’ than any other brutal assault. Is it a horrible thing to go through? Of course. My own experience didn’t lead me to believe that the act of rape was any worse than being beaten and choked. I felt no more unsafe after being raped than I did after having someone try to drown me - scared, somewhat helpless, and hoping I would some day be able to walk around without being afraid anymore.
And both times, I was. There was no irreperable damage to me, so though I can understand that to some people rape is the absolute worst possible crime in the world that a person never ever heals from it, that wasn’t the case for me. Am I the same person I was before being raped? No, of course not. But I’m also not the same person I was before the attempted drowning. And I’m not necessarily ‘damaged’ as a net result of either. I think, actually, that it’s made me a better person. Survival of something horrible made me stronger, so the net effect wasn’t damage it was, for me, betterment.
I have nothing against people who didn’t and don’t feel the same way I do about being attacked or raped, but for some reason every time I hear that ‘rape always causes irreparable damage’ and that it’s ‘unwashable’ and ‘a fate worse than death’ that there are people who have survived it and don’t feel that way.
Probably because every time I discuss what happened to me, someone always says that it must be so awful for me to remember it and that I probably still feel dirty and ashamed. It’s not one of my happiest memories, no, but it was years ago, and it doesn’t hurt anymore.
My apologies for rambling. Anyway, tying this to comments about prison rape, basically, I have no sympathy at all for someone who has committed horrible crimes against other people, such as those who killed Polly Klaas and Danielle Van Dam. I will not bat an eye if they’re raped in prison, and I’ll probably even joke about it.
It’s not that I actually think rape should be their punishment, because I don’t. The humor in it is the irony of them in the same position as those they tortured, even if it is morbid humor of the darkest kind.
So, anyway, there’s the perspective of someone who was raped and will joke about it. I’m not sayin it’s right or wrong; it’s just my opinion.
Exactly.
Agreeing with jarbaby here. You can’t wish that kind of pain on someone without losing something of your own soul. Justice is supposed to be civilized.
And let’s remember something–as much as I hate crimes like child molestation, etc., an awful lot of the perpertrators of those crimes were subjected to the same abuse as children themselves. They’ve already been through that particular hell. Which in no way justifies or excuses the choices they make to cause more pain to more children, obviously, but hoping that they will be raped in prison is no way to stop the poison from spreading.
Just to be clear -
I do not feel that I have “lost something of my own soul” when I feel absolutely no compassion for the molesters or rapists. If anything, I feel a sense of vengence knowing that they are now experiencing the same fear and pain as their victims. If this makes me a coldhearted bitch, so be it. It’s how I feel.
You’re right, it does not justify their behavior as an adult but any implication is an insult to those who have been abused as children and not gone on to be abusers as adults.
I do feel that prisoners should be protected and I do understand that in most cases it is the timid and weak who are victims. But as I said earlier, the vengeful bitch inside of me feels no compassion for the abusers who are abused.
Well, as a person who’s made a few prison-rape jokes, all I can say is that I’m not about to cover myself in shame and apologies for them.
And my soul seems okay with that. No feelings of dirt or shame or anything.
Any implication of what? That some people who commit awful crimes of abuse were victimized themselves? It’s not an implication, it’s plain truth. Other victims do not go on to hurt others, yes. Good.
If I had implied that the criminals couldn’t help themselves, it might be different, but since that is exactly what I did not do, I don’t see what you’re talking about.
I think we should televise it as well, that way, everyone that believes in this particular type of justice can feel more complete about justice being done. Now when the DNA doesn’t match up, and/or innocent people are convicted and sent to prison, as in the Central Park Jogger case, we have a problem.
The thing is, Diane, those folks are innocent victims of the crime some folks have been wishing upon them. They might not be innocent of other crimes, but they’re still not guilty of something for which our legal code provides torture as the penalty.
Diane, you can feel sympathy, or not. The point is, do you really accept prison rape as acceptable (thus, your opinions affect more than just how you feel, but your actual position)? Even worse, do you actually wish for it to happen?
I know I don’t feel the same way thinking of an innocent person being raped as a multiple murderer getting raped, but neither of those are warm fuzzy feelings, nor do I accept either of them as parts of a civilized society. It’s just the same for other crimes – if a little child is murdered, I may feel worse than an adult, but it doesn’t make it more or less wrong as a crime, nor should it affect how we respond.
Rape, gang-beatings, and other violent abuse of prisoners is not OK; they are crimes and should be punished and, to any extent possible, stopped from occurring.
The guy who rapes another prisoner is a rapist, just as much as the guy who rapes an innocent person who has never been convicted of a crime. Whether or not you feel sympathy for the victim, this is still a violent crime, not any sort of justice. (It may be ironic, but it’s not really relevant.)