Re: “Under My Thumb” and much of the material on Aftermath. Jagger has expressed what one might generously call regret, “Obviously, I was having a bit of trouble. I wasn’t in a good relationship. Or I was in too many bad relationships. I had so many girlfriends at that point. None of them seemed to care they weren’t pleasing me very much.” So close…
That was a joke about the thread spinning off into a bit of a hijack, including my own post.
Way back in the day I’d hear that song on WCKG and was surprised that they’d play it. Then they cut the “giving head” line, then I think they just cut the verse (probably to avoid the empty space at ‘giving head’), then they cut “…and the colored girls go…” and eventually I was left wondering WHY they bothered playing it.
It’s a good topic. I spun it off into another thread: What is the song you can no longer listen to
Oh, yeah. Not arguing that point. I think the most charitable view is that the song is a bad idea, no matter what angle you look at it from. I’ll say, though, that I like the instrumental part quite a bit.
I mostly hear it now on XRT. I probably heard it on CKG back in the day, but don’t rememeber the edit. It’s possible I’ve heard the edit and just didn’t notice it because it was an entire cut verse and not just silence in the middle of a verse. But I’m reasonably certain I’ve heard it the full version within the last year on XRT with nothing cut from it. But different stations have different policies, and play different edits of songs. For example, one station plays the album edit of “Melt With You” (that doesn’t have the backing vocals after the first verse and chorus, among some other minor differences), while another plays the single version (which I prefer). Every time I hear “Sweet Child o’ Mine” with the “where do we go from here” coda, I get excited – most stations seem to cut it. That kind of stuff.
Different eras as well. I assume someone at WCKG management had a hand-wringing phase in the early 90s in the era of Tipper Gore, etc. I just remember thinking “Why are they bothering to play a song with 30% of the lyrics cut out?” before I moved on to different music/stations (i.e. got more into alternative)
I swing the other way, as it were. I think the singer is straight, but so naive he’s never seen a transvestite before and has never considered the possibility. So he spends an evening with Lola, and kisses, but later realizes Lola is a man. But he likes her anyway, but is not going to have sex, because he’s straight. So they’ll part on good terms. But neither is angry about the time they had.
That’s how unmixed up Lola is.
I dunno, because after he pushes her away and heads toward the door he stops and falls to the floor, and then we get the lyric:
Well, I’d left home just a week before
And I’d never, ever kissed a woman before
Lola smiled and took me by the hand
She said, “Little boy, gonna make you a man”
After which he asserts that he’s “a man” and “glad”. So my read is that they did indeed have sex.
But, y’know, it’s just a song.
And a darn good one!
You know, some old stuff gets so hopelessly dated that it becomes cringe-worthy. (like say, Under My Thumb). 56 years on, Lola is still good, and relevant, even in these more enlightened times.
Off of a pretty great album, IMHO ( Lola Versus Powerman and the Moneygoround, Part One)
I agree with almost everybody here that Lola hasn’t got even a tiny trace of transphobia. And I have to add that I’ve always thought that it’s the perfect rock song. Perfect, witty and cleverly ambiguous and raunchy lyrics (mind-blowing for the times), and an irresistibly catchy melody and instrumental performance. Ray Davies is a genius songwriter, and IMHO he also managed to write the perfect pop song, Waterloo Sunset.
And Moby is a dolt. (though I even saw him live 26 years ago, while I never caught the Kinks, sadly)
Has anyone other than I seen both The Kinks and Moby live? (Slightly cheating because Moby was a talk, not a music performance).
And the funniest part of all is that the Beeb didn’t have any problems with transgender or transvestites or unmarried sexnannigans or ambiguous gay duos, but…that singing “coca cola” is free advertising, and must be banned!
Seconded.
Yeah, I also see that one as the singer performing a “bad boy” character with some room for irony. I agree that there’s nothing in the lyrics of “Under My Thumb” that would definitely indicate that’s the case. but it would be consistent with, e.g., “Heart of Stone,” which is written in a similar persona, but it’s clear by the second verse that the singer is protesting way too much.
I’ve seen both. In fact, The Kinks were my first real concert that I went to with friends rather than getting dragged along by parents. It was the Word of Mouth tour, maybe 1984?
I don’t remember where I saw Moby, I think it might have been a festival.
My MIL named a kitten “Lola” because she heard that song in the cab when she was talking the kitten home.
I have a friend in 2026 who is feminine presenting and non-conforming and considers himself a man. He wears a name tag (at events where that’s done) that has his pronouns on it, just to be clear about it.
So yes, it’s possible Lola was a feminine presenting guy.
Lola was probably trans.
Lola was probably a trans woman. So yes, actually a women. But i don’t think that’s what you meant. Anyway, it’s pretty clear that Lola had a dick. And that they had sex even though that surprised the singer.
I’ve always liked the song. I wonder what my trans friends think of it, though. They are all a lot younger than i am. I grew up in an age when being trans was nearly unthinkable. If you grew up thinking it’s unremarkable to be trans, the song may be awkward.