Ray Rice goes Tubthumping.

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

As a side note, one of the hardest things to adjust to when I moved to the US was how incredibly bad most American pro athletes are in interviews. I think Peyton Manning is the only guy who I’ve ever watched a presser for and not cringed. It’s not as though sportsmen in other countries are all Cyrano de Bergerac but generally they understand sentence structure and don’t speak in cliches.

My man David Foster Wallace had something really interesting to say about that -

It remains very hard for me to reconcile the vapidity of Austin’s narrative mind, on the one hand, with the extraordinary mental powers that are required by world-class tennis, on the other. Anyone who buys the idea that great athletes are dim should have a close look at an NFL playbook, or at a basketball coach’s diagram of a 3-2 zone trap…or at an archival film of Ms. Tracy Austin repeatedly putting a ball in a court’s corner at high speed from seventy-eight feet away, with huge sums of money at stake and enormous crowds of people watching her do it. Ever try to concentrate on doing something difficult with a crowd of people watching?..worse, with a crowd of spectators maybe all vocally hoping you fail so that their favorite will beat you? In my own comparatively low-level junior matches, before audiences that rarely hit three digits, it used to be all I could do to manage my sphincter. I would drive myself crazy: “…but what if I double-fault here and go down a break with all these folks watching?..don’t think about it…yeah but except if I’m consciously not thinking about it then doesn’t part of me have to think about it in order for me to remember what I’m not supposed to think about?..shut up, quit thinking about it and serve the goddamn ball…except how can I even be talking to myself about not thinking about it unless I’m still aware of what it is I’m talking about not thinking about?” and so on. I’d get divided, paralyzed. As most ungreat athletes do. Freeze up, choke. Lose our focus. Become self-conscious. Cease to be wholly present in our wills and choices and movements.

It is not an accident that great athletes are often called “naturals,” because they can, in performance, be totally present: they can proceed on instinct and muscle-memory and autonomic will such that agent and action are one. Great athletes can do this even – and, for the truly great ones like Borg and Bird and Nicklaus and Jordan and Austin, especially – under wilting pressure and scrutiny. They can withstand forces of distraction that would break a mind prone to self-conscious fear in two.

The real secret behind top athletes’ genius, then, may be as esoteric and obvious and dull and profound as silence itself. The real, many-veiled answer to the question of just what goes through a great player’s mind as he stands at the center of hostile crowd-noise and lines up the free-throw that will decide the game might well be: nothing at all.

How can great athletes shut off the Iago-like voice of the self? How can they bypass the head and simply and superbly act? How, at the critical moment, can they invoke for themselves a cliche as trite as “One ball at a time” or “Gotta concentrate here,” and mean it, and then do it? Maybe it’s because, for top athletes, cliches present themselves not as trite but simply as true, or perhaps not even as declarative expressions with qualities like depth or triteness or falsehood or truth but as simple imperatives that are either useful or not and, if useful, to be invoked and obeyed and that’s all there is to it.

[brickbacon]

@Stink Fish Pot

Again, you make it sound like she was pummeling the poor man. She weighs what, 130 lbs? He goes 265. He hit her hard, and he would have knocked down most men with that swing. (IMO, of course, your jaw may differ.)

Just for the sake of factual accuracy, Ray Rice is nowhere near 265lbs. He is about 5’8" and 206 lbs.

@Stink Fish Pot

I heard yesterday an explanation that had a ring of truth to it.

The person said that what probably happened is that Goodell watched this tape with legal council, thereby making it privileged and not something that could ever come out unless he comes out and states that he saw it, which there is no way in hell he can or will do now.

That’s not how privilege works, nor would he be bound from saying he (or the NFL) saw, possessed, or obtained the tape. I suspect the person who ultimately saw the tape doesn’t technically work for the NFL, and that Goodell and the other executives specifically choose to not obtain or evaluate evidence obtained by outside channels.

@Stink Fish Pot

I guess it IS possible that your scenario is correct, however to me it doesn’t pass the smell test. I can see an underling stating “i have seen the tape, and Mr. Commish, you don’t want to see it.” If something like that occurred, Goodell is still lying because he claims he has no knowledge of anyone seeing this.

If I worked at the NFL headquarters right now, i would go into Goodell’s office and say “you are in a very bad spot. The NFL is in a bad spot. I will take the blame for receiving the tape and never showing it to anyone else or telling anyone else I received it. And. I will do it for the sum of $20 million dollars.”

Do you really think it’s that easy to make that much money disappear without a paper trail or alerting others? Especially because the person who gets hung out to dry certainly cannot then be seen spending millions of dollars. I suppose it could happen, but it also might make things even worse for the league.

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Seriously. Who was the coach that said “nothing good happens after midnight”? Bill Parcells? Nothing good happens on Twitter if you’re a pro athlete either.

I disagree. Twitter is especially useful for athletes without major endorsement deals because it allows them to make money and be visible. For example, Chad Johnson (OchoCinco) has 3.5mm+ followers. He gets paid for witty, subtle advertising tweets like this:

[QUOTE=OchoCinco]
Love is a mothaf*cka, makes you wake up in the middle of the night to make Peaches n Cream oatmeal with a glass of Simply Orange OJ.
[/QUOTE]

Almost nobody would be listening to Johnson without Twitter. Shaq, who reportedly makes around $15mm in traditional endorsements, makes $1-5mm on Twitter. Twitter is great for athletes, particularly when they aren’t superstars, or when they wear helmets. Yes, it is a vehicle for them to say stupid things, but the vast majority don’t.

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

As a side note, one of the hardest things to adjust to when I moved to the US was how incredibly bad most American pro athletes are in interviews. I think Peyton Manning is the only guy who I’ve ever watched a presser for and not cringed. It’s not as though sportsmen in other countries are all Cyrano de Bergerac but generally they understand sentence structure and don’t speak in cliches.

I, again, disagree. These guys are generally more educated than most, and most are fairly well spoken. Someone shoving a mic in your face after you exhaust yourself playing your sport isn’t really an interview as much as an ambush. Yes, it somewhat expected, but there isn’t much room for insight and contemplation when you have 20 seconds to respond to an inane question from a reporter. When you are asked some dumbass question like, “4-22 shooting for you guys, what’s the problem”, what can you really do? I personally can’t think of too many actual interviews with athletes that went particularly poorly. At least not at percentages higher than average.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Fotheringay-Phipps

I’m not an expert on athletes, but I would add Kareem Abdul Jabbar to your list of exceptions. I once heard him interviewed in some analysis-type situation, and he was pretty thoughtful.

I’m sure there are plenty more exceptions. Charles Barkley springs to mind, as do the Barber twins.

@Jimmy_Chitwood

My man David Foster Wallace had something really interesting to say about that -

It’s an interesting theory, but again, athletes in other countries generally don’t have this problem. Roger Federer is more erudite in English than most NFL players, and it’s his third language.

I disagree. Twitter is especially useful for athletes without major endorsement deals because it allows them to make money and be visible. For example, Chad Johnson (OchoCinco) has 3.5mm+ followers. He gets paid for witty, subtle advertising tweets like this:

Almost nobody would be listening to Johnson without Twitter. Shaq, who reportedly makes around $15mm in traditional endorsements, makes $1-5mm on Twitter. Twitter is great for athletes, particularly when they aren’t superstars, or when they wear helmets. Yes, it is a vehicle for them to say stupid things, but the vast majority don’t.

Chad Johnson and Shaq are retired. They don’t have sports careers to jeopardize. Besides, they’re both funny.

I, again, disagree. These guys are generally more educated than most, and most are fairly well spoken.

I didn’t say they were dumb. I know a lot of them are quite intelligent and quite educated. That’s part of the reason I don’t understand why they sound so dumb.

[Marley23]

They’re not interested in sounding smart. Most of them just want the reporters to go away - either because they’re not interested in talking to them, or because they want to make sure they don’t say anything that will make the public or their coaches made at them.

[Zakalwe]

@Marley23

They’re not interested in sounding smart. Most of them just want the reporters to go away - either because they’re not interested in talking to them, or because they want to make sure they don’t say anything that will make the public or their coaches made at them.

'Cause nobody wants to get made at - except perverts and East Eurasians because those guys be CRAZY yo.

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

It’s an interesting theory, but again, athletes in other countries generally don’t have this problem. Roger Federer is more erudite in English than most NFL players, and it’s his third language.

It has to be the case that the difference in perceived erudition has a lot to do with the questions you’ve heard Federer answer vs. the questions you’ve heard posed to Dwight Howard. Other sports have people who aren’t master orators, too.

I’ve met some non-American ruggers. If they had Jim Gray in their faces 300 times a year, I don’t think you’d see them covering themselves in glory.

[wonky]

@Jimmy_Chitwood

It has to be the case that the difference in perceived erudition has a lot to do with the questions you’ve heard Federer answer vs. the questions you’ve heard posed to Dwight Howard. Other sports have people who aren’t master orators, too.

I’ve met some non-American ruggers. If they had Jim Gray in their faces 300 times a year, I don’t think you’d see them covering themselves in glory.

Well, there’s also a big difference between tennis and team sports (and between Federer and even most tennis players). Tennis players are actually coached on public speaking and how to deal with the media as individuals. The players don’t just automatically have fans just because they are with a team (though undoubtedly, some have fans just because they represent a country).

[Marley23]

I think all pro athletes in major sports get some training in dealing with the media, but I don’t know how helpful or extensive it is. Some players probably talk to the press after every game they play but still don’t say much of anything. Wallace was right, I think, at least in his theory that some athletes don’t want to think too hard about what they do because they feel that being self-conscious will hurt their performance.

[Ambivalid]

@aceplace57

Kicking Ray Rice off the team just makes the situation at home more dangerous for his wife. Unemployed, broke, depressed who do you think he’ll take his frustration out on?

The original penalty was meant to reprimand Rice and change how he treated his wife. His coaches had been counseling him. The hope was he’d grow up and not make the same mistake again. She claims the relationship was improving. She even went ahead with the marriage after this incident. Now they are both SOL. No money. No job. It’s a dangerous situation for her. Especially if he starts drinking. She needs to get out of that house quick.

I just cannot take a single word you post seriously. Seriously.

@Jimmy_Chitwood

Man, I don’t get it. I really don’t. It must be a reflection on something that’s wrong with me psychologically but I am freaking fascinated by the stuff this guy says. Does he know that nearly every opinion is premised on a very straightforward and major factual error? Does he ever confront this? Is it at all relevant to his life?

It’s like one of those robot vacuums; he just bumps into something and turns and goes off in a different direction.

I’m fascinated too! Befuddling.

[mhendo]

Seems that a goodly number of Ravens fans still think Rice is their type of guy.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Jimmy_Chitwood

It has to be the case that the difference in perceived erudition has a lot to do with the questions you’ve heard Federer answer vs. the questions you’ve heard posed to Dwight Howard. Other sports have people who aren’t master orators, too.

I’ve met some non-American ruggers. If they had Jim Gray in their faces 300 times a year, I don’t think you’d see them covering themselves in glory.

Oooh. That’s probably a fair point. The only people who sound dumber than NFL players are NFL analysts.

@mhendo

Seems that a goodly number of Ravens fans still think Rice is their type of guy.

Well, wife-beaters need representation too. Now he can be their King.

[Cubsfan]

Vikings' Peterson booked, released from jail

Hmmm…

[Marley23]

But Greg Hardy is good to go.

On June 15, 2014, Hardy was convicted of beating his girlfriend and threatening to kill her.

Actually this gives you a better picture of what happened:

Hardy pulled me from the tub by my hair, screaming at me that he was going to kill me, break my arms and other threats that I completely believe. He drug me across the bathroom and out into the bedroom. Hardy choked me with both hands around my throat while I was lying on the floor. Hardy picked me up over his head and threw me onto a couch covered in assault rifles and/or shotguns. I landed on those weapons. Hardy bragged that all of those assault rifles were loaded. Landing on those weapons bruised [my] neck and back. Hardy screamed for his “administrative assistant” (Sammy Curtis) to come into the room and hold me down. Curtis came into the room, grabbed me from behind and held me down. Hardy and Curtis then took me into the living room area. I wasn’t nearly strong or fast enough to escape. I begged them to let me go & I wouldn’t tell anyone what he did.

Hardy was found guilty of assault, given a 60-day suspended sentence and 18 months probation.

[Marley23]

I suspect the Peterson discussion will break down somewhat along pro- or anti-spanking lines, but this writeup of the case is pretty disturbing. He seems to have hurt his son pretty badly, and the child also told police Peterson hit him in the face.

[Cubsfan]

This one is less cut and dry and I think you’re right it will turn into spank no spank debate. One difference between this and the Rice thing is that the text messages that are referenced clearly show he is regretful that the butt whooping hurt his son more than intended and he feels bad about that. This one will be tricky for the NFL because I think he will be convicted at some level but don’t think it’s a job losing level of indiscretion.

[DigitalC]

Just saw the pictures of the kid on TMZ, imo it is pretty damn cut and dry and much much worse than anything Rice did.

[Marley23]

@Cubsfan

One difference between this and the Rice thing is that the text messages that are referenced clearly show he is regretful that the butt whooping hurt his son more than intended and he feels bad about that. This one will be tricky for the NFL because I think he will be convicted at some level but don’t think it’s a job losing level of indiscretion.

Another difference: he’s much better than Ray Rice is. He’s a star player and you know that will figure into the Vikings’ calculations.

[aceplace57]

Didn’t take him long to appeal. Does it matter if he disclosed everything in the meeting with Goodell months ago? I don’t know if punishing someone twice matters in this case. The league pretty much makes up their own disciplinary rules.

Ray Rice to appeal indefinite suspension on Monday

The appeal will be handled by the NFLPA and by an outside lawyer retained by Rice.

Because the indefinite suspension was imposed under the personal-conduct policy, Commissioner Roger Goodell will have the ultimate authority over the appeal. Don’t be surprised if Rice and the union ask that Goodell designate a hearing officer who has no current connection to the league office, which Goodell ultimately did in the appeal of the players suspended in connection with the Saints bounty case.

Apart from whether Goodell potentially has prejudged the Rice case before the appeal process has played out, Goodell also will be a witness in the appeal process, since one of the key questions is whether Rice lied to the team or the league about what happened in the elevator.

Rice is expected to contend that he told the team and the league the truth. Ultimately, the person who resolves the appeal will have to hear testimony from Rice, Goodell, and other witnesses before deciding whether Rice lied — especially since Ravens G.M. Ozzie Newsome has said that Rice didn’t lie.

[VarlosZ]

@aceplace57

Does it matter if he disclosed everything in the meeting with Goodell months ago?

Yes, because the League’s official rationale for adjudicating the matter twice and handing out a second, much longer suspension was the Rice lied about the incident when he met with Goodell. It’s actually kind of the *only *thing that matters, in terms of Rice’s appeal.

[aceplace57]

News reports are saying the league got the tape months ago. It’s linked above as Bye Roger.

Maybe this running back can throw a Hail Mary pass after all.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24708350/ray-rice-case-family-exploring-legal-options-nflpa-maneuvering-re-instatement-by-2015

There’s a good chance we’ll see Ray Rice back in the NFL in 2015.
The family of Ray and Janay Rice have had discussions with lawyers about potential strategies and actions in the wake of his indefinite suspension by the NFL following the release of video tapes of him assaulting his wife, and there are no shortage of attorneys who believe the former Pro Bowl running back has a strong case against the league.

The NFLPA, which has until Tuesday to formally respond to the suspension, is also planning on fighting the suspension, sources said, not wanting to allow a precedent where a player is sanctioned multiple times by the NFL for the same incident.