RE: Does the theory of evolution fly in the face of the facts?

From- http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mevolutionreply.html

This person expects to find “evidence of birds turning into reptiles” as proof of evolution. Where this idea spawned from, who knows? However, there DOES seem to be fossilized evidence of reptiles slowly turning into birds.

More information here- Feathered dinosaur - Wikipedia

I just thought that might be of interest to some people (including those still doubtful of evolution… for some reason.)

Actually, it is generally agreed that reptiles did not evolve into birds. Rather, one particular group of dinosaurs did. Dinosaurs are now known to have been warm-blooded and often feathered, and are no longer considered reptiles.

Well, then reptiles evolved into birds with a transitional period in dino-town.

Admittedly, that transition took ~200 million years. More than enough time to get settled in.

Well, you know what I mean. :stuck_out_tongue: I meant that one type of dinosaur did. The dinosaur not being considered a reptile anymore though, I’ve been slow to get. I don’t check the news much, and I’m still in school (so obviously I wouldn’t be learning that any time soon, since teachers don’t teach anymore.) I have heard about them possibly being warm-blooded, but the rest is new to me. Thank you for the information.

Back to your OP, most people who are opposed to the theory of evolution have a lot of basic misunderstandings of what that theory says. Hence, the person who asked the question certainly falls in that category. Sometimes, the misunderstanding is deliberate; sometimes, it’s just faulty information that’s been passed along (in some cases, deliberately).

Hence the arguments that both monkeys and people exist today, so we can’t be descended from them. Or the argument that a crocodile can’t give birth to a bird. Or…

Specifically, suchids (crocodiles), not theropods, if you listen to my wife. She lists four-chambered hearts and various skeletal relationships, like something to do with the clavical and the bones that make up the orbit. Me, I smile and nod and point her to the internet where she can argue these things forever, but she doesn’t take the bait so I have to continue to smile, nod, read her references, and ignore anything that is contrary for the sake of the kids.

Boys, this is how you stay married for thirty years. You may want to reconsider that engagement. Even in a no-fault divorce state I think I’d be laughed out of court for a disagreement over bird and croc skulls.

Depends on what kind of classification you follow. Some taxonomists would recognize a clade Reptilia that includes turtles, lizards, snakes, crocs, dinosaurs, and birds. “Reptiles” as a group including just turtles, lizards, snakes, and crocs is not considered to be valid at all, cladistically. (However, in my opinion it’s still valid as a non-technical common group name for these.)

Technically speaking, either “Reptilia” doesn’t exist at all; or else includes the traditional “reptiles,” dinosaurs, and birds.

The usual cladistic scheme, the last I heard, is to regard the traditional reptiles, dinosaurs, birds and mammals as “amniotes”, and not to use “reptile” as a clade at all.

And tuataras. Everyone always forgets the tuataras.

Sauropsida is the clade of amniotes that includes all things reptilian + birds (it’s sister clade, Synapsida, includes us). Dinosaurs have ever been reptiles, originally classified as lizards but today placed, along with pterosaurs, among the Archosauria. There was a brief period during which some folks attempted to elevate the ranking of Dinosauria to its own Class (thus taking them out of Class Reptilia), but with cladistics, such finagling is unnecessary. They remain full reptiles, in any sense that a reptile can be said to exist.

If even once they’d show up for one of the meetings, I’d remember to put them on the evites.

As **Darwin’s Finch ** has explained, Sauropsida is the general clade within the amniotes containing all traditional “reptiles,” including dinosaurs (which include birds). Some taxonomists recognize another clade, Reptilia, within the Sauropsida, which excludes some fossil groups.

This page shows some arrangements of the amniotes which include the clade Sauropsida and the clade Reptilia within it.