Re-Posted Bill Maher makes a good point. LINK

[Banquet_Bear]

@Babale

Of course, he didn’t say anything like that, did he?

…yeah, he did.

@Babale

that we shouldn’t refer to them by their chosen pronouns

Just a reminder of what it was that Seth Moulton actually said. (the clip omitted the full quote from Moulton, probably deliberately, to make it seem less transphobic than it actually was)

Spoiled because it contains casual transhobia:

@Moulton

“I have two little girls, I don’t want them getting run over on a playing field by a male or formerly male athlete.”

Gov. Maura Healey says Rep. Seth Moulton was "playing politics" with trans...

Moulton is talking about trans-women. He is calling trans-women both “men” and “formerly men.”

This is misgendering. Its a transphobic dog whistle. Its literally transphobia. That line of argument wouldn’t even be allowed here on the dope, that’s just how egregiously transphobic it is.

It shows you just how far the conversation has shifted that we now have people defending this line of argument. Which is why I’m arguing that its time to pick a side. You either side with the Bill Maher’s and the Seth Moulton’s of the world, or the Maura Healey’s and the Ayanna Pressley’s of the world that stand with trans people and aren’t afraid to say it.

@Babale

What he said was a losing proposition was specifically including trans women in women’s sports.

Let’s be accurate here: they were talking specifically about including “men or formerly men in women’s sports.”

An argument AKA throwing trans people under the bus.

@Babale

Here’s what one trans activist has to say on this subject:

x.com

I’m not sure “trans activist” is the most accurate way to describe Brianna Wu to be perfectly honest.

Here is trans journalist Parker Molloy reposting her piece from 2022 about trans athletes. It very well researched and provides much more context than Brianna Wu’s tweet.

Fine, Let's Talk About Trans Athletes

I don’t think Brianna Wu’s argument that “trans people don’t need to play in sports” holds up. I think its an argument that applies for everyone. Cis people ALSO don’t need to play in sports. But that doesn’t mean we should ban cis people from competing with other cis people. And it does affect someone. It affects all of the people Molloy talks about in their article. It affects all the trans people playing sport now, and all that will aspire to play it in the future.

Is it really going to be this easy to abandon trans people? Because we all know that it isn’t going to stop at sports. And we all know that it isn’t going to stop with trans people.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Banquet_Bear

Is it really going to be this easy to abandon trans people?

Yup. It sucks but trans are a small portion of the population and republicans have made supporting them political kryptonite.

It’s awful. I wish it were otherwise. Welcome to Trump-World.

[Smapti]

Maia (@maiamindel.bsky.social)

[Slithy_Tove]

In 1876, the Republican Party said “to hell with Black Americans, just give us the fucking election.” What hope could transsexual Americans have today?

[Banquet_Bear]

@Whack-a-Mole

It sucks but trans are a small portion of the population and republicans have made supporting them political kryptonite.

…that’s a choice.

There are politicians that are winning their seats that are choosing to say NO: trans people are NOT “political kryptonite”. They have no problem defending their constituents and it isn’t politically damaging to do so.

We all have that choice. And thats what I’m getting at here. It shouldn’t be easy to abandon trans people. I reject the premise of the OP in its entirety. I think that should be easy for everyone here to do. I stand with trans people.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Banquet_Bear

There are politicians that are winning their seats that are choosing to say NO: trans people are NOT “political kryptonite”. They have no problem defending their constituents and it isn’t politically damaging to do so.

You are right. Some trans candidates won this election and that’s great (and I was surprised given how the whole thing panned out but happy to see them win). Tip O’Neill famously said, “All politics is local.” (might have been said earlier by others)

The road back to sanity can start with these politicians. I think it will be a long road though.

[Smapti]

@Banquet_Bear

There are politicians that are winning their seats that are choosing to say NO: trans people are NOT “political kryptonite”. They have no problem defending their constituents and it isn’t politically damaging to do so.

We all have that choice. And thats what I’m getting at here. It shouldn’t be easy to abandon trans people. I reject the premise of the OP in its entirety. I think that should be easy for everyone here to do. I stand with trans people.

Dammit, you people got me agreeing with Banquet_Bear.

[Irishman]

@Whack-a-Mole

It’s dems abandoning the middle class. They may support unions but unions are falling all the time (save a few special ones like police).

You know why unions are falling? Fucking “right to work” and “right to fire” states that make unions impotent. Guess who makes those rules? Hint: it ain’t the Democrats.

@Whack-a-Mole

House prices are out of control and young people can’t begin to think of getting a home. Dems tut tut but basically do nothing. Price gouging under the guise of inflation. More tut tutting and nothing.

Did you not listen to a thing Harris said? Lowering housing costs and fighting price gouging were literally two of her most concrete plans to improve the cost of living. What did that fucker Trump actually offer? I mean he made promises to get rid of income tax and a dozen other things, but what did he actually offer? Tariffs.

@Whack-a-Mole

Abortion rights falling all over the place.

And that’s the Democrats’ fault?

@Whack-a-Mole

A clear lack of accountability in government (what did Merrick Garland achieve in four years?)

Accountability in government is impossible when one party won’t accept any negative outcome against one of their own.

Media lies and manipulations, legal stalling tactics, and Trump-appointed judges undercut the DoJ efforts.

But that’s the Dem’s abandoning the middle class. Then what the fuck are the Republicans doing forthe middle class? Because it’s not supporting unions (as Trump laughs with Musk about firing striking workers), or lowering housing costs, or fighting price gouging (big business are the price gougers), or protecting women’s health and self- determination, or doing a fucking thing to bring accountability to the government.

Government accountability from the Party that defied facts to acquit Trump twice, then ignored his efforts to overthrow the election, then backed his lies about election integrity issues that were completely indefensible in multiple lawsuits, then support Trump again for their party candidate – bizarro world is here.

@Smapti

Democrats have become too afraid of the billionaire class to even propose rent control or a ban on absentee landlords or tighter regulation of airbnb or anything else that would actually address the causes of the housing crisis,

But what have the Republicans done? Fight rent control and anti-absentee landlord legislation and tighter restrictions on airbnb as anti-free market and therefore anti-capitalism and therefore communism.

@Whack-a-Mole

There are lots of ways dems could have done better.

Perhaps. Now tell me how the Republicans did better for the middle class than the Dems.

Pointing out that prices before the pandemic were lower doesn’t count. Global inflation caused by the pandemic protection measures drove prices up. What did Republicans actually do to help, with any of the issues you list?

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Irishman

Guess who makes those rules? Hint: it ain’t the Democrats.

@Irishman

Did you not listen to a thing Harris said?

@Irishman

And that’s the Democrats’ fault?

@Irishman

Accountability in government is impossible when one party won’t accept any negative outcome against one of their own.

@Irishman

Now tell me how the Republicans did better for the middle class than the Dems.

Tell me how Dems went to the mat to fix any of this? That’s the thing. I want them to fight for all of this, tooth and nail. They did close to nothing.

I want them to fight. They don’t fight.

[Irishman]

@Whack-a-Mole

I want them to fight. They don’t fight.

And a blowout defeat for sanity by oppressive corruption sure inspires fighting.
/s

[Der_Trihs]

@Whack-a-Mole

Yup. It sucks but trans are a small portion of the population and republicans have made supporting them political kryptonite.

And if the transgender are abandoned (or rather hounded to their deaths, to be realistic about it) all that happens is that the Republicans move on to their next target while still bashing Democrats over the transgendered. The Democrats letting the Republicans salami-slice them to death won’t help them at all, nor will backstabbing supporters in the name of pandering to hateful people who won’t even notice.

And the Democratic base will look at that and see it for the betrayal that it is, and be even less willing to support them.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

I’ve said elsewhere: one of the best things the Democratic party could do right now is to build a recruitment pipeline from union activists and community organizers. Republicans are winning because of their fake populism, with billionaires pretending to be working-class and convincing working-class people that the billionaires are on their side. Democrats are never going to fake this populist lingo as well. But Democrats could be led by actual working-class folks. The skills of community organizing and labor activism would translate well to political coalition-building.

Fuck the idea of abandoning principles.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

And yet, we keep losing to this unspeakable horror of a man.

[What_Exit]

Moderating:

This is attacking the poster and not the post. Do not attack the poster outside of the Pit.

How to Reply as a linked Topic

Click Reply, in the upper left corner of the reply window is the reply type button, looks like a curving arrow point to the right.

Choose Reply as linked topic and it starts a new thread. As an example, you can choose GD, IMHO or The Pit for it.

That is actually the best method.

[Der_Trihs]

He represents what much of the American public wants; bigotry, stupidity, tyranny, ignorance, malice. And millions of others beyond that core group were just willfully stupid and ignorant. And here we are.

[crowmanyclouds]

@Der_Trihs

He represents what much of the American public wants

I wish this, in general not just restricted to Trump, would sink in.
If I hear ‘Why can’t the Democrats just do this?’
Umm, because half the fucking country DOES NOT WANT IT.
And sometimes that ‘half’ includes Democratic voters.

[Babale]

@Banquet_Bear

@Babale

Of course, he didn’t say anything like that, did he?

…yeah, he did.

Just to be clear, because you’re doing this quote snipping thing that makes it very difficult to follow the original point - no, he didn’t. Here’s the claim made:

@Babale

Of course, he didn’t say anything like that, did he? He didn’t say that we should throw Trans people under the bus; that we shouldn’t refer to them by their chosen pronouns; that we shouldn’t ensure that they have access to gender affirming care. He’s for all of those things. What he said was a losing proposition was specifically including trans women in women’s sports.

And you can’t point to him saying that trans women shouldn’t be treated as women, because he didn’t say that. He does think that trans women are women. He just correctly points out that sports are based on physical characteristics, not on how someone identifies.

@Banquet_Bear

Just a reminder of what it was that Seth Moulton actually said. (the clip omitted the full quote from Moulton, probably deliberately, to make it seem less transphobic than it actually was)

Spoiled because it contains casual transhobia:

“I have two little girls, I don’t want them getting run over on a playing field by a male or formerly male athlete.”

And he apologized for the terminology he used, but not the contents of his message. Which is 100% what he should have done. Certainly the term “men” was incorrect to use in this context; nevertheless, most Americans agree that people who were AMAB don’t belong in women’s sports. And saying so isn’t transphobic.

The way you’re jumping down his throat is precisely why Americans didn’t vote Democrat last election.

@Banquet_Bear

This is misgendering. Its a transphobic dog whistle. Its literally transphobia. That line of argument wouldn’t even be allowed here on the dope, that’s just how egregiously transphobic it is.

The word “men”, which he apologized for, yes.

Trans women are formerly male, that’s what makes them trans and not cis.

@Banquet_Bear

It shows you just how far the conversation has shifted that we now have people defending this line of argument. Which is why I’m arguing that its time to pick a side. You either side with the Bill Maher’s and the Seth Moulton’s of the world, or the Maura Healey’s and the Ayanna Pressley’s of the world that stand with trans people and aren’t afraid to say it.

This is a really, really funny joke.

No, what shows how far the conversation has come is that just a few short years after society even started acknowledging that trans people exist we have already gotten to the stage that even acknowledging that someone is Trans and that this might impact their performance in sports is met with angry accusations of transphobia.

The conversation has moved incredibly fast - in the direction of trans acceptance - and that’s a good thing.

@Banquet_Bear

Let’s be accurate here: they were talking specifically about including “men or formerly men in women’s sports.”

And he apologized for using the term “men”, but you’ll crucify him as a warning to others anyways, and then wonder why people think our side is insane.

@Banquet_Bear

An argument AKA throwing trans people under the bus.

Putting it in italics doesn’t make it true.

@Banquet_Bear

I don’t think Brianna Wu’s argument that “trans people don’t need to play in sports” holds up. I think its an argument that applies for everyone.

You’re right; sports aren’t a necessity and acting like someone’s human rights are being violated because they can’t compete as women is hysterical and silly.

@Banquet_Bear

But that doesn’t mean we should ban cis people from competing with other cis people.

Then should men be allowed to compete in women’s sports competitions? Why do you want to block via people from competing with other cis people?

@Banquet_Bear

I’m not sure “trans activist” is the most accurate way to describe Brianna Wu to be perfectly honest.

She’s trans and she speaks about trans issues because she wants to secure for trans people the right to gender affirming care and the right to be treated as a member of the gender they identify as. Why on Earth would you decide to Cisplain to her that she isn’t an activist? Unfuckingreal.

@Banquet_Bear

Is it really going to be this easy to abandon trans people?

No one is abandoning trans people. Trans people deserve the right to gender affirming care and to be treated in all social contexts as the gender they identify with.

[DeadTreasSecretaries]

@Irishman

Perhaps. Now tell me how the Republicans did better for the middle class than the Dems.

Pointing out that prices before the pandemic were lower doesn’t count. Global inflation caused by the pandemic protection measures drove prices up. What did Republicans actually do to help, with any of the issues you list?

They offered nothing that will actually work.

So the Democrats will have a good shot to take things back and then if people’s lives aren’t meaningfully improved the Dems will have a tough time staying in government after they are in charge and there’s a good chance it will flip back again.

[DavidNRockies]

I didn’t read the thread, but I did watch the episode.

Once again, Maher is railing against the RW caricature OF today’s Democratic Party.

Here’s the GOP Fear and Faith platform in a nutshell. These are the lies the right spreads about the left. None of this has any relationship to Democratic policy proposals or planks in the party platform:

*They’re turning this country socialist – like Venezuela
*They’re giving this country over to illegals and brown people
*They’re going to ban your guns and your religion
*They’re teaching your children to be ashamed of their race, their heterosexuality, and their ethnicity
*They’re turning your cities into war-torn cesspools
*Your children are utterly not safe in Librul 'Murica
*You won’t be able to buy a 17 ounce fountain drink
*We’ll all be forced to eat nothing but kale. An In-n-Out Double Double burger will be a Felony
*They’re using Agenda 21 to force us all to live in cramped barracks and drive Smart cars or (GASP!) EVs
*Anthony Fauci is going to sedate you, Bill Gates is going to inject a chip into you, and then Big Brother will own you
*You’ll pay 105% of your income in taxes
*Biden Crime Family!!
*You’ll have to marry interracial, have LGBTQ kids, and get an abortion. You’ll just have to
*We’ll all be buying Cadillac Escalades for non-English speaking Welfare recipients
*They’re eating the dogs. They’re eating the cats. They’re eating the pets … of the people that live there
*FOR THE LOVE OF GRID … BENGHAZI !!!

And I really could go on and on.

They’re evil, but they’re generally not stupid.

If Democrats need to reach people who are vulnerable to this kind of marketing effort, I really don’t know how they could. Whatever other qualities that cohort has, it will be hard to bypass these lizard-brain, existential issues and talk intelligently to them about the reality of “their economic interests.”

[Babale]

@DeadTreasSecretaries

They offered nothing that will actually work.

So the Democrats will have a good shot to take things back and then if people’s lives aren’t meaningfully improved the Dems will have a tough time staying in government after they are in charge and there’s a good chance it will flip back again

The problem is that presidents don’t actually have that much control over the economy, and it takes time for their actions to be felt anyways.

Trump steered us towards disaster with his handling of COVID. Biden took four gruelling years to get the economy back on track, and he did a great job, with the US outperforming the rest of the world in COVID recovery.

Now we are on a good path. Some of the nonsense Trump is planning will knock us off that path again - tariffs, for example - but if it takes 2 years to get those passed and another 2 years to start feeling the effects, we may still be high off the fumes of Biden’s economic plan when we’re voting in JD Vance in 4 years.