real estate legal issue

In My Humble Opinion
1

Yeah yeah, I know, no real legal advice here. I get it.

Now moving past that, I’ve got a situation and am only looking for general ideas. It’s day 1, trying to look into options.

I live in LA, in an R1 zoning neighborhood. That’s single-family homes. The psycho lady next door (she really was, I mean cops showing up, she was delirious from either being on drugs or being off her meds, etc) eventually moved out a few years ago and converted her house to an illegal duplex. For years, we had to deal with living next to it, tried to get it shut down repeatedly but no luck due to corrupt housing inspector.

Flash forward – she finally loses the house. It goes into foreclosure, bank owned property. Goes back on the market. I contact the selling real estate company by phone, AND be email, AND I walk next door and speak with the agent in person – and let them know that it’s their responsibility to disclose to the next buyer that the house must be a single family home, that a duplex is illegal.

That was in september, home sold in december.

New guy was doing a lot of fix-er-up work to the house. Seems like a nice guy.

And Friday the tenants moved in. Yup. It’s a duplex again.

Now, I’ve learned over the years how to bypass the corrupt inspector and go over his head. No question I can get this thing shut down. But I don’t want to completely screw the new owner over, assuming the selling realty company never disclosed the illegal duplex. (I just took a screenshot of their online listing… it reveals the downstairs unit, never says it’s illegal.)

I’m going to tell the new owner there’s an issue and it has to be corrected, and I’ll suggest he go after the listing agent for lack of disclosure. As a third party, though, do I have any rights?

Can I demand a copy of what the listing agent disclosed to the buyer, for instance? Can I subpoena their email records? And can I sue them for the hassle I have to go through assuming they did not disclose? Can I sue for legal fees I’ll incur going after all this?

I’ll speak with a lawyer this week, but I wanted to see if I could get some basic info first.

2

I’m not really a real estate attorney, but the first concern I would have is your lack of standing to bring a claim. If I’m understanding you correctly, you really haven’t suffered any financial harm, right? Its a separate building/domicile from your own, correct? Other than the fact that you got an improperly classified home next to you, I can’t see how you have any ability to claim you were harmed in any way.

There’s probably gonna be someone with more real estate law knowledge than me that can give you a better answer. However, unless I’m misunderstanding, I can’t see where you would have any claim. But again, real estate attorney would be able to give you more concrete advice.
EDIT: Does the fact that there’s an illegal duplex next to you affect your tax situation or property values at all?

3

Tax situation, no. Property values? I would certainly assume so. Who wants to buy a house adjacent to an illegal duplex?

As for harm, there has been no other financial harm to me, but it’s not easy living next to them. They have illegal exterior stairs, and anyone on them can’t help but clomp loudly due to the way they were built. This has woken our toddler up (and our 5 year old, and my wife and myself) several times already.

Also, parking in the neighborhood is VERY tight and having twice the number of occupants means they constantly park in front of our place.

I know, low on the list of problems in the world, but here it’s a big hassle. We’ve got two kids to get out of the car and it’s a pain. This wasn’t a now-and-then thing, happened ALL THE TIME with the previous duplex people.

But the fact that I told the sellers 3 different ways and they apparently ignored me is infuriating. It absolutely affects quality of life, and property values. Are either of those enough of a claim?

4

Ehhhh maybe. Property values is your best bet, I would think. That’s the one thing that you can really attach some sort of dollar amount to. Of course you have to prove the harm somehow with evidence and that might be difficult depending on the situation. There’s a possibility of some injunctive relief too, but again if you can’t show sufficient harm (monetary, physical, emotional, etc.), you’re up the creek without a paddle.

I have no real experience in that field and certainly none in California law. But when you do talk to a lawyer, be prepared to talk about what harms you’ve suffered. That’s the first hurdle you need to clear.

5

Thanks, appreciate it.

Ideally, I talk to the new neighbor, inform him the realtors were clearly told about this, and he responds that there was no disclosure. In which case, he can go after them himself. Long as the f’ing duplex goes away once and for all, I’m happy.

6

Warning: I’m gonna go all stream of conscious lawyery here. The following paragraph is probably completely inaccurate and insane, so you know, you should probably just ignore it, but…

I’m just thinking out loud here and you probably won’t know the answer, but a CA attorney might have some idea. If you could show that the realtor had a “duty of care” to you as a neighboring home owner, you could possibly bring some sort of fraud or misrepresentation claim. NOW, there’s probably absolutely no way that California extends a contractual or duty of care relationship from a realtor to a neighboring homeowner, so this is really just a thought exercise. But if that theoretical duty extended to you and the realtor continually made misrepresentations about the nature of home, you could have some sort of claim. However, you’d still need to show harm of some sort.

But as you, your neighbor would obviously be in a better position to go after the realtor.

Again, not my area of expertise at all so, grain of salt.

7

I’m a commercial RE agent.

I’m not familiar with CA real estate law, but in most cases with respect to RE agent representation the agent has a presumed duty to either the buyer or the seller depending on whom they are representing. It is mostly likely the agent you spoke to was representing the seller (ie the bank) not the buyer. Although he would not be representing or advising the buyer in this scenario, he would have a duty to disclose any relevant information he was made aware of that which might negatively impact the value or utility of the property. The key here is “relevant”.

If the use or configuration of the property is utterly out of compliance with the existing zoning this would be (IMO) a pretty relevant issue. This assumes that the duplex use of the property has not gotten municipal approval via variance, special exception, a Zoning administrator’s letter of opinion, or a similar allowance. You need to be 110% sure of this.

With respect to demanding enforcement of a zoning regulation I would imagine being a neighbor should be all you need to demand action.

If you are absolutely sure you can shut it down as a duplex, give notice and go ahead. Make sure you have a copy of the email you sent to the real esate agent. You may want to consult with your atty.

8

You may not have much to go on if you attack the listing agent. Regardless of what an ad might say, the governing documentation (in my state) is the Condition Report, and unless you have a copy signed by both buyer and seller, you don’t know for sure what was disclosed and what was not. The ad is minimally relevant.

Surely there is a government department in your area responsible for enforcement of the zoning laws. In my county, it’s the Planning and Zoning Department, and they will send an administrator to the site if they receive a complaint they can’t handle by phone. No inspector is involved.

If that doesn’t work, I’d try the next level of government. Who has the oversight for that department? Is it a supervisor, alderman, another department, or committee? I doubt if they are all crooked.

9

Get all you wish, but do it in IMHO rather than GQ. MOved.

samclem, MOderator

10

Excellent point. Litigation should always be the last resort if you can help it. Complaining to the local big wigs in your town is quicker and cheaper, and just as effective in a lot of cases. You got the litigation route,but you’ll be out many thousands of dollars no matter what.

Or you can go the bitch and moan route and bring the problem up the bureaucratic line Even if you have to hire a lawyer to draft some letters and make some phone calls, you’ll still have a good chance at a happy ending. And at 1/4 of the price a trial would cost.

11

Surprising that this would be IMHO when I’m looking for factual questions, but ok, I have no problem with that.

Yes, I am certain there was no variance to the zoning. The psycho who lived there just did it, and then moved to TX and charged her tenants rent. I knew she was working on her place, but had no idea she was dividing the home into two units until it was too late.

And yes, the housing inspector in our area is known to be useless, and widely assumed to be corrupt (he’s been shown so many flagrant instances of problems and never does anything). But I’ve had my own zoning issues on a rental property I own elsewhere in the city, and now I have the number for the housing inspector supervisor I had to deal with.

Yes, the agent I spoke with represented the seller/bank. By the way, we believe the entire second floor is un-permitted. I told the agent I didn’t care if the floor stayed or not, that the lack of a permit made the house unsafe for the owner (didn’t reinforce the foundation), but that wasn’t my problem. But if this goes to housing dept, I have a feeling not only will they have to get rid of the duplex division and second kitchen, they’ll be forced to bring the house into legal compliance – including the 2nd floor and illegal fence in front.

I’m trying not to be the jerk who screws over the neighbor that way. I don’t care if his foundation won’t support his house (we redid our foundation last year and our house is fine), or if his fence goes to the street and is too high. I DO care that living next to a duplex is a major pain in the ass.

And normally I’d completely agree the realtor doesn’t owe me a thing – except that in this instance, I went out of my way to inform them of the problem and that I’d be pursuing legal action if they didn’t inform the new owner. I did this 3 months before they sold the unit.

Now if the owner was informed and ignored it, then he’s an idiot and can clean up his own mess. Otherwise, I’m happy to give him the proof of the conversation and let him sue the sellers.

12

As relates to the deal between the bank and the buyer. No, not really.

No to all the above. You have no standing whatsoever to demand any of these private, business transaction documents.

Why are you even involving yourself in the details of their transaction? It seems like a huge waste of time if your goal is simply to have the city or county enforce the zoning regulations. Your point of attack is simply to get the existing zoning regulations enforced. I’m not clear why this is gong to require an attorney or be expensive if the violation is as flagrant you indicate.
Trying to make the real estate company or the bank the “bad guy” so you won’t be thought of as a huge dick in this process is not going to work. You’re in or you’re out as the spoiler in this scenario. If you initiate these proceedings you will thought of as a huge, flaming asshole by your neighbor no matter how polite he is to you. Stop trying to dance on the wire.

13

Factual questions of a legal or medical nature that relate to a real world case go in IMHO. It’s been that way since we started allowing legal/medical questions about real world situations.

14

I agree with astro about abandoning your vendetta against the real estate firm. Your beef is with the current owner and use of the house according to zoning regulations and applicable laws. It matters not what the agent told the buyer or seller even if the situation wasn’t properly disclosed. The local governing agency doesn’t enforce sales contracts, just zoning laws.

If the agent misrepresented something, that’s for the buyer, seller and agent(s) to work out.

If you can’t get satisfaction thru the proper departments, contact your representative in the county, city, town or village government. Somebody has to have oversight.

15

I’m wondering about one of the claims you made: that the real estate firm was ‘responsible to make sure that the buyer knew it was not to be made into a duplex.’
I’m a former Realtor, and I can’t remember having heard of this ‘rule’, but then again I’m not from California. (Or wherever it is you live.)
On what were you basing this pronouncement? (And, where did I get the idea you were in California???)
If I were an agent, and a neighbor came up and said this to me, I would not only ignore him, I might contact the loony bin on his behalf.

hh

16

Yes, I am in CA. Los Angeles.

My claims come from disclosure. Selling realtors knew damn well the house was an illegal duplex, in an R1 (single family home) zone. The floors used to be connected inside, now there was a board put up halfway down the stairway to separate the floors without removing the stairs.

The downstairs unit had a separate entrance (illegal), and a second kitchen (illegal).

This was all done by the previous owners, who then lost the house in foreclosure.

When I spoke with the realtors in September, the house had been empty for several months and had finally gone on the market. I told them that I expected them to disclose to the new buyer (whoever it turned out to be) that the unit had been illegally divided, and that I, as a neighbor, was not ok with it and would take legal steps to correct it if the new owners didn’t convert it back to a single family home.

I have NO IDEA if they told this to the new buyer or not. I know they ADVERTISED it as having a second floor that was separated.

So yes, to my knowledge the sellers must legally disclose any unpermitted construction or known issues. This certainly falls under that purview.

Still waiting for the new owner to come back from an out-of-state trip on wed. If he tells me he was never informed, I’ll hand him the copy of the email I sent to the realtor. He can then sue them for lack of disclosure.

If he WAS informed, then that’s his problem. And as Astro pointed out, I get to be the asshole for defending my property rights and insisting the house be brought back to code.

(Note – I am not bitching about the illegal fence, or the entire second floor being unpermitted. Those don’t affect me like the additional neighbors do. I’m reasonable, but no way am I putting up with that shit again.)

PS - my beef with the realtor is, to be blunt, a need for some vengeance. If they knew they had to disclose and chose not to, I want them to suffer for turning me into the bad guy. Basic human need. =)

17

Is there a way to bring the house up to code and still allow tenants (like reuniting the inside)? Is the owner not allowed to sublet? I guess I’m questioning how you know it’s still a duplex, unless you’ve been inside the home.

18

He can rent it all he wants. What he can’t do is divide the floors and have separate entrances and/or kitchens. That violates r1 zoning. Requires r2 zoning (duplex… 2 family homes). R2 can’t have a 4-plex, for instance.

And yes, have seen inside home. There’s no question.

19

But it sounds like your principal complaint was the parking issue. If they can rent to a family with another car, then changing it from a duplex to a uniplex won’t increase the available parking. That only leaves the sound of them walking on the outside staircase, and loud stairs are not a justified complaint.

Basically, it sounds like you want to file a nuisance suit. You don’t have a legitimate reason to enforce the zoning on their property. I can see wanting to get a psychotic bitch out of the neighborhood. But she’s gone, and it’s time to let it go.

20

I had nothing to do with getting the psycho out. She left on her own. I just fought her on the duplex after she left.

And I’ve dropped the idea of suing, but not a chance I’m letting the duplex stay. And yes, my lower proper value is more than enough of a reason.

Ps - new tenants have 2 cars. Upstairs owner has 2 cars. They have 1 parking space in driveway.

Is that enough in and of itself? Probably not. But I’ve lived next to it as a duplex and I can promise its a pain in the ass all around, Parkin, noise… I have every right to expect the single family home neighborhood I moved into to contain only single family homes. If I wanted to live next to a duplex, I could save myself tens of thousands of dollars a year in reduced taxes and a lower mortgage.